Pella Impervia or Marvin Infinty?

[jlowen]

I posted a question about a week or so ago regarding the Softlite Imperial and the Alside Excalibur replacements. Since then, I have moved on to the fiberglass models. I go a quote for the Pella Impervia and today I went and looked at the Marvin Infinity. Both were nice windows but I have to admit that I like the Marvin appearance better. I also liked the how the window felt as I opened and closed it. Looking at warranties, I find that Pella has a lifetime on their window and Marvin only has 10 years on the product and 20 years on the glass. Does anyone have any comments regarding the quality of these two windows and how much emphasis I should place on the warranty differences?

Thanks,
John

[jlowen]

I've gone back and looked closely at the Impervia window and have also taken several trips to the Marvin Dealer. I really like the Marvin Infinity better than the Pella Impervia. The Infinity is a much more attractive window and has several nice features. The Impervial had unsightly gray weatherstripping around the inside of the frame. I didn't particularly like their finish. The Infinity opened and closed easier and had a lift handle at the bottom of the window. The Impervia had a lift rail at the top of the bottom sash and was a little more awkward to open and close. They both have 20 year warranties on the glass package with the main difference in the warranties being on the non-glass portions. Impervia's non-glass warranty is lifetime where Infinity is 10 years. I am willing to risk the lower warranty in that I really think that the Marvin is a better window. I will let you know what I decide.

[wayside]

I put Infinities in my house and I like them. The warrantee doesn't worry me too much because I seriously doubt I'll be in this house in 20 years.

[jlowen]

Wayside,
Even though you claim that you won't be there in 20 years, do you get the impression that the Infinity is a well constructed, duarable product that could last 20+ years? As I mentioned earlier, I really like the way that they feel when they open and close.
Thanks,
JOhn

[wayside]

The Infinity seems pretty solid to me. I think they will last.

There were several things that really sold me on the Infinity:

- narrow rails; I have smallish windows (31x48), using fiberglass gave me about 15% more glass per window
- integrated tilt mechanism; having it built into the lock mechanism is really slick
- moderate price; mine came in at under $600 apiece installed, with new alminum wrapping and removal of the old storms, etc.
- I like the extra strength of the fiberglass; I felt comfortable putting my 80 pound air conditioners in the windows

I didn't look closely at Pella's fiberglass window; at the time I don't think they had the double-hung yet, only the single-hung. It wasn't on their web site anyway, although it is now. Custom sizes for Pella is a special order (means more $$?), while all the Infinities are custom size.

I wish Marvin had a triple-pane option, though. And my wife wasn't crazy about the lift handles; in fact, we didn't put them on - the windows open quite easily just by lifting up the sides.

[JScott]

Could you actually buy an Impervia after seeing the Infinity? Marvin has an 11 year learning curve over the other manufacturer using pultruded fiberglass in their products. Lifetime warranty on a product less than 5 years in the field. I believe you know the direction to take and are needing a little nudge.

[jlowen]

You are right about my needing a nudge. I went to the Marvin dealer again today and we are going to schedule a time for him to come out and give me a formal proposal. He gave me some rough numbers based on my measurements and the windows seem to be close in price to the Impervias. I am still more impressed with the Marvin Window and will more than likely end up with them. I also read an article today from the Builder Online archives that described how Marvin handled the rotting sash issue several years ago. I was impressed that Marvin took the initiative to go beyond their warranty to keep customers happy instead of waiting around for PPG to do something about their sealant. If this is an indication of the type of company that Marvin is, I'll be pleased. I know that every manufacturer may have a problem from time to time. What is important is how they deal with their customers when this happens!
Thanks for your input.
John

[jlowen]

I had the Marvin dealer come out an give me a quote. The product prices were pretty much in line with the Pella Impervia windows. I was really shocked when I saw the installation labor cost. For the 7 windows that I was looking to replace, Pella Impervia came in at about $6000 installed while the Marvin Infinity was around $9000 installed. The difference is mostly due to labor. Are they possibly looking at two different installation techniques or does labor differ that much from installer to installer? I need to ask more questions to make sure that I am comparing apples to apples.

[wayside]

Holy smokes! $1300/window???

How big are your windows?

[jlowen]

I counted wrong in my original post..
Here are the details (Marvin):
23 5/8 x 72, 2 windows = 920.02
39 5/8 x 72, 1 window = 555.10
34 5/8 x 60, 2 windows = 920.92
34 3/4 x 72, 2 windows = 1001.00
72 1/4 x 60 1/4, double window = 920.92

Here is where Marvin and Pella start differing significantly. Pella wants a flat $290 per window. Marvin quoted the following:

Labor = $4425
20 Sheet rock adapters = 72.80

Is there a reason that the Marvin labor comes in at close to $500 per window. I do have aluminum windows now and he mentioned that he would have to cut the windows out. I need to figure out exactly what he is going to do and exactly what the Pella installer is going to do so that I can compare them and make up my own mind which is the correct way to go. I went back to Marvin and shared the Pella numbers and they are going to see what they can do but by what I heard, I don't expect them to come all the way down. They suggested that I find out what Pella was doing with their install, i.e. insert, etc. This is an area that I am not knowledgeable and will depend on this board to help guide me once I can explain the options better.

[Tru_blue]

The difference in price might be explained by protected sales territories. With Marvin's Infinity window, only ONE dealer per region is licensed to sell and install it; you can't even install it yourself because it's sold on an installed-only basis. Without any competitors the installing dealer can command any price they want to and hopefully it's reasonable. It's not necessarily a bad thing - you're assured of getting a professional installation rather than taking your chances with an installer or do-it-yourselfer who might not know what they're doing. Although Pella's dealers sell and install the Impervia window, any contractor can buy and install Pella, which can potentially mean more competitive prices. Both are good choices, Pella's window is stronger and Marvin's is more aesthetically pleasing, and both perform well.

[jlowen]

I tend to agree with your assessment regarding the Marvin being more aesthetically pleasing. It is one of the reasons that I am pursuing it. The Impervia is also a very good window from what I can tell and if there is a significant price difference at the end of the day, I will go with the Impervia even though I like the Marvin's looks a little better.

[wayside]

... With Marvin's Infinity window, only ONE dealer per region is licensed to sell and install it; ...

Is this true everywhere?

In my neck of the woods (Boston area), when I was looking I called a couple of the retailers listed on the Infinity web site for MA, and they gave me a price for just the Infinities over the phone, without even verifying if I am in the business. The company I went with did not have any kind of exclusive as far as I know - the owner never mentioned it and it is not on their web site.

[jlowen]

Another conversation with the Marvin rep. indicates that he was quoting a full tear versus an insert. He informed me that an insert would not work in my situation and asked that I double check with Pella. He asserts that they were quoting an insert. I'll have to find out what they were quoting and act accordingly. Is there any reason to think that the Impervia can be installed as an insert where the Infinity cannot?

[bgif9]

I recently signed a contract for Marvin Infinity windows. The web site indicated that there were several disributors in our general area. I was satisfied with the most local distributor and did not attempt to contact others.

I purchased double-hung Infinitys with SDL. These windows match up very favorably with the architectural look I want to preserve in my older home. I also liked the heavy and solid feel that these windows have. High percentage of glass area, and the traditional single latch were factors along with good energy efficiency and maintenance free interior/exterior.

I like this window and Marvin has a very good reputation in our area. For these reasons, I was willing to pay a premium price. I was told that my existing frames were in good condition and was pleased that the installed price quoted to me was very competitive (in some cases less) compared to several other quotations I received.