glasshouse
What gave you the impression that anyone here was looking to elevate your opinion of posters? Instead of bombarding the thread with negatives about the product you obviously sell or have purchased (based upon your previous posts), I chose a subtle, more indirect, semi-humorous approach. Now, if you feel it would benefit others considering this product and it would be even less slanderous for me to show it's weaknesses and well deserved mediocre reputation, I can do that as well. Oh, and slander is defined as a verbal/audible attack, so unless you are hearing voices from these posts... you might want to use the term Libel.
I missed your removed post, but I know the Admin well enough to know that if he removed it, it was for a reason. Promote your product honestly and for what it is and I am sure the posts will remain. Attack other posters who provide valuable info, and your posts might be removed.
Why is it always considered "Trash-talking" when it's a negative response?
THERMAL INDUSTRIES?
FenEx... you weren't exactly giving "valuable info" up top when I first asked a simple question... instead all I got was your so-called indirect, humorous approach. Stay with me a second here... I'm sure your a funny person and people that have been in her awhile like that but your gonna have to remember that I'm new to this forum and with good reason- before I spend in excess in 15K, I like to know your professional, technical points and your expert opinions. I DO care if the windows were made on the moon- interestingly enough. I know that prisoners have made decent license plates for years but the question is can they make quality windows? Maybe I'm not barking up the right tree but I'd sure like to know why.
Like I said, I'm new at this so let me take a stab. Will these windows frost up? Will they warp? will they not keep the cold out? Is the intercept system substandard? Are the DH components inferior? weaknesses? How is the window not to your standards. No new person in here automatically knows. Please someone help.
Alright enough, group hug.
Like I said, I'm new at this so let me take a stab. Will these windows frost up? Will they warp? will they not keep the cold out? Is the intercept system substandard? Are the DH components inferior? weaknesses? How is the window not to your standards. No new person in here automatically knows. Please someone help.
Alright enough, group hug.
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glassHouse
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:08 pm
FENEX
Thanks for correcting my libel/slander miss-speak.
As for me, I have never sold a window in my life. Don't ever plan to either.
I have purchased them and am considering purchasing more which is why I am here (see questions regarding swinging french doors that I had hoped you could provide some information on).
Like RacerX, since I am considering Thermal Industries, I would like to know FACTS about the company but for some reason it is harder to find FACTS than inuendo, heresay and humor. If they are manufactured in prisons in Arizona then I would like to have that fact verified. If they aren't, I would like to know that too. Adding your expert name to the thread may be humorous to you and your buddies but do you know it to be a fact? If not say so.
FACTS I know about Park Avenue by Thermal Industries (from my research) relative to your favorite.
I know they are not as sturdy nor welded as cleanly as SHUCO (I have seen both). I know that SCHUCO let out 22% more heat based on the ratio of U factors(.22/.18 ). I know that you are convinced that their seal is better than PPG's at retaining the gas but I have not seen a convincing proof of this yet. I also know that in my part of the country SCHUCO's cost quite a bit more.
Reread my post. I never accused the admin of editing my post. Entirely possible that I did something wrong while fixing a few typos that caused it to disappear. RacerX saw it and he was who it was for. He can certainly attest that it did not contain anything false, misleading or otherwise necessary to be edited by an admin. In fact you might be surprised to find out that I called Schuco (your favorite) the best window in many ways if you live in a territory that they have given to an honest, reasonably priced distributor. Their biggest weakness in my opinion (and I have seen evidence in your posts to suggest you at least sometimes agree) is that in many parts of the country they have given the monopoly to some sharks.
Bottom line is that many people come here looking for information and it would be nice if, when negative information is provided about a company some route to verifying that information could be provided. I don't know earwax nor Jscott nor you personally but I suspect that some of you sell/distribute/install for competitive brands, probably because you are convinced they are better, but those of us trying to decide what to buy have to keep in mind that if you are unwilling to share the facts behind the quick negative comment (that has nothing to do with performance but instead casts a doubt on the companies viability) then there is real possibility that it is sniping (which I define to be saying something negative that you have no way of supporting or proving with the purpose of reducing consumers confidence in a product).
Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion but I put more stock in checkable facts. So again, if anyone can provide a source for the prison manufacturing statement, I think consumers like RacerX and I would take such comments more seriously. If not, I at least will dissmiss it as heresay like the Chapter 11 comment which has yet to be supported and seems to be a red herring.
Thanks for correcting my libel/slander miss-speak.
As for me, I have never sold a window in my life. Don't ever plan to either.
I have purchased them and am considering purchasing more which is why I am here (see questions regarding swinging french doors that I had hoped you could provide some information on).
Like RacerX, since I am considering Thermal Industries, I would like to know FACTS about the company but for some reason it is harder to find FACTS than inuendo, heresay and humor. If they are manufactured in prisons in Arizona then I would like to have that fact verified. If they aren't, I would like to know that too. Adding your expert name to the thread may be humorous to you and your buddies but do you know it to be a fact? If not say so.
FACTS I know about Park Avenue by Thermal Industries (from my research) relative to your favorite.
I know they are not as sturdy nor welded as cleanly as SHUCO (I have seen both). I know that SCHUCO let out 22% more heat based on the ratio of U factors(.22/.18 ). I know that you are convinced that their seal is better than PPG's at retaining the gas but I have not seen a convincing proof of this yet. I also know that in my part of the country SCHUCO's cost quite a bit more.
Reread my post. I never accused the admin of editing my post. Entirely possible that I did something wrong while fixing a few typos that caused it to disappear. RacerX saw it and he was who it was for. He can certainly attest that it did not contain anything false, misleading or otherwise necessary to be edited by an admin. In fact you might be surprised to find out that I called Schuco (your favorite) the best window in many ways if you live in a territory that they have given to an honest, reasonably priced distributor. Their biggest weakness in my opinion (and I have seen evidence in your posts to suggest you at least sometimes agree) is that in many parts of the country they have given the monopoly to some sharks.
Bottom line is that many people come here looking for information and it would be nice if, when negative information is provided about a company some route to verifying that information could be provided. I don't know earwax nor Jscott nor you personally but I suspect that some of you sell/distribute/install for competitive brands, probably because you are convinced they are better, but those of us trying to decide what to buy have to keep in mind that if you are unwilling to share the facts behind the quick negative comment (that has nothing to do with performance but instead casts a doubt on the companies viability) then there is real possibility that it is sniping (which I define to be saying something negative that you have no way of supporting or proving with the purpose of reducing consumers confidence in a product).
Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion but I put more stock in checkable facts. So again, if anyone can provide a source for the prison manufacturing statement, I think consumers like RacerX and I would take such comments more seriously. If not, I at least will dissmiss it as heresay like the Chapter 11 comment which has yet to be supported and seems to be a red herring.
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glassHouse
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:08 pm
Thanks for the reply earwax. More information is always better. When information is complete it is certainly not trash talk and that was why I made the comment; to steer it toward facts (which seems to have worked). I would have been much more concerned if the vinyl (which is in the URL of this board so I think aluminum work vs. vinyl work is a relevant distinction here) windows were ASSEMBLED there.
The question is, do we really feel that Atrium's employing prison labor for their ALUMINUM windows is a relevant fact in the decision to buy from their subsidiary company that makes only VINYL windows, AKA Thermal Industries? That is for individuals to decide now that the facts are out (and checkable on the web).
FENEX's comment is that
Nothing says "Quality", quite like prison labor assembly.
Seems to me that jumping on the bandwagon here, whether it is for humor sake or for whatever reason, was not well founded in the final analysis.
The question is, do we really feel that Atrium's employing prison labor for their ALUMINUM windows is a relevant fact in the decision to buy from their subsidiary company that makes only VINYL windows, AKA Thermal Industries? That is for individuals to decide now that the facts are out (and checkable on the web).
FENEX's comment is that
Nothing says "Quality", quite like prison labor assembly.
Seems to me that jumping on the bandwagon here, whether it is for humor sake or for whatever reason, was not well founded in the final analysis.
I am not a big fan of taking jobs away from people who might actually want them and taking them to prison for the sake of cheaper labor. I would rather they produce them overseas, or over the border personally. My personal reasons for not supporting that are they are made in prison. It is not a trade that is in high demand and a person will get out of prison and make the world a better place because of this window making knowledge. Most window manufacturers pay decent and employ hard working, honest people,......not criminals. I vote with my wallet. I vote for honest labor at a fair wage. Now off my horse and back to work.
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InfoSponge
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:25 am
I don't want to take a stand here either way, but despite the general disdain for prison labor, at least here in my state, the prisoners only work if they volunteer and are considered safe and capable of working. They are usually required to save a large part their earnings so they can have something to start with when they get out and some are also required to support children/spouses, etc. "Going to work" and saving are also good habits some prisoners could benefit from learning.
There may be an argument that this takes jobs from non-prisoners, or the quality might not be as good, that people should never do anything that "benefits criminals", but allowing "incarcerated workers" (is that more PC
) may also provide some social benefit. I do agree that customers can vote with their wallet for what they prefer...
There may be an argument that this takes jobs from non-prisoners, or the quality might not be as good, that people should never do anything that "benefits criminals", but allowing "incarcerated workers" (is that more PC
) may also provide some social benefit. I do agree that customers can vote with their wallet for what they prefer...
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