Window Advice for NC (Gorell vs Champion vs ?)

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TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

Window Advice for NC (Gorell vs Champion vs ?)

#1 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

We are looking to replace our windows in NC...and we have started hitting the wall trying to decide which option is best.

We want to replace 14 regular windows, plus 1 "slider" window, plus a sliding glass door. To throw in another twist, we want to switch openings between two windows and where our current door is.

First we had Champion out. They said they could do the opening switch, and the lowest "same day" and "commercial" price was $11k. But we had reservations about some of what we were told.

Next, we had Dixie HomeCrafters out, who use Gorell windows. We were impressed with the windows, and the presentation was much better than Champions. But they couldn't do the opening switch. Their lowest "same day" price was $14k. Which we reached during their pressure sales pitch, where they seemed to believe price was the main issue even though we told them we would weigh at other options regardless. So far, this seems like the best option to me, but the high pressure left a bad taste in our mouth.

We have appointments next week for Home Depot and Gerald Jones (sells BFRich). We wanted to get Aluminum Company (sells Great Lakes) out, because they have a good "word of mouth" around here, but it took 2.5 days for their SALES staff to return our call. Not a good sign in my book, so for now, I haven't scheduled them.

Anybody have any experience with these installers, or any advice on the window brands? We find this whole process frustrating and confusing, but it's something we need to do.

Also, they all seem to press this "same day" strategy, but is it possible to get the same price later?

Thanks for any advice.

randy
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#2 Post by randy »

First of all, avoid the companies using high pressure sales techniques altogether. Second, the price from Dixie is quite high. Gorell makes some good windows, but no vinyl window is worth that much.

Visit the Simonton website, and see if there are some dealers in your area. Get two or three more quotes from smaller companies who are usually more customer satisfaction oriented, and check their references.

Good luck.

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#3 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

There seem to be plenty of Simonton dealers, but they all look like suppliers and not installers. The only one I know that does installs is Home Depot...but the ones listed aren't really local. If they work out of the local store, I suspect they will sell Andersons, since that's what is displayed most prominantly at their store (and I didn't see any Simontons).

What is a good price for Gorells? Is it worth trying to negotiate? I knew they would be more than Champion, and I don't mind paying more IF they are better. Of course I don't want to get ripped off either.

The sales pitch was awful. Their original price was about $16k. When we said we wanted to check out other options, he called his "manager", who said they would do it for $14k if we signed a marketing agreement (sign in yard, be on their calling list, etc). We were fine up until that point...he did typical salesman things, but the product looked good. But when you almost have to escort them out, it leaves you with a bad feeling.

netmouse
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:33 pm

#4 Post by netmouse »

Home Depot up north seems fine. Their separate division for Home Services uses a window made by Simonton (not their in-store window brands). Which is a good manufacturer. The only cautions about Home Depot is that they use sub-contractors, so it depends on who they get for your project. And they were a few thousand dollars above competitors for similar windows, so a pretty big mark-up to feed the corporate company. I found their peace of mind selling approach was something that smaller local businesses are now offering - no labor costs for any window repair (as well as any install problem) as long as you are the home owner. Home Depot did not play games on pricing, etc., so seemed very professional. The installer for Gorell and some others played big games with price and pressure to sign today - I also got the call back saying they would upgrade me from a 2-pane to 3-pane window if I let them use me as an example whatever. So that tells me they first tried a high price, now played games with a lower price. Don't fall for any games - imagine how bad they'll be if they do your windows and then you have to call them for help. There are many good decent vinyl windows so the important thing is to find a good installer who really is customer service oriented, prices out of a book so there are no games, warranties labor as long as you are in the house, etc.

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#5 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

Home Depot came out tonight. You are right, they do use the Simonton window. To me, the window didn't seem quite as nice as Gorell, but they were close. But the salesman was a lot more professional, none of the high pressure stuff that the Dixie Homecrafters guy pushed.

Anyway, they quoted us two models, the 6500 and the 6100. The 6500 with most of the same features as the Gorell was $13.5k. The 6100, missing a few of the features, but with the Softcoat Low E and Agron added, was $12.5k. They wouldn't do the opening swap either.

So, the price for "top of the line" was about the same as Gorell (which was $14k). Of course, Gorell started with $16k, we only arrived at $14k after the high pressure and marketing agreement. I feel like we could get back to $14k, or maybe even a touch lower, but not without some pain.

The warranties were pretty close. Both had both labor and materials as long as we own the home. Both were transferable. And both even gave a lot of the same sales pitch.

We have pretty much eliminated Champion. Too many questions about their product, and with the price difference plus supposedly also doing the opening switch, they're probably hiding some fees. And the guy didn't have a pitch that there weren't any, so now I'm suspicious.

BFRich dealer tomorrow. Meanwhile, any further thoughts on Gorell vs Simonton at these prices?

windowmannjny

#6 Post by windowmannjny »

i am in favor of the Gorell window, i like the look and the glass more than the Simonton window. they are both very good products, which lines of each were they quoting you on?

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#7 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

I would definitely say from just looking at them, in my highly (un)educated opinion, the Gorell was the nicest window. But whether we really need a triple pane window in the South...

The Simonton quoted the 6500 and the 6100 as mentioned above.

The Gorell guy didn't specify. I tried to tell from their site, but the it's hard to say from the descriptions. Maybe the 5200? It definitely had the interlocking rail. Are there any other tell-tell features that I might be able to use to figure it out?

We had Gerald Jones out tonight, with BFRich windows. Definitely seemed like the lowest quality window to me. Oddly, he didn't give us near as much spiel as we got from the other guys. Even more odd, he didn't give us a price, but said he would call back in a day or two. Maybe it was because it was halloween, I dunno. Supposedly they CAN do the opening swap, though...but at this point this isn't the main factor.

We're really overwhelmed with info/options now, and I don't feel particularly "warm and fuzzy" about any of them. It definitely is a lot like used car shopping.

Can you negotiate with Home Depot on price? Or is that even a good idea (considering you'll probably just get a cheaper subcontractor)?

Anyway, we'll wait to see what the BFRich price comes out to. I've definitely learned a lot from this site. Any other opinions would be greatly appeciated.

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#8 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

Finally got the quote back from the BFRich dealer. $8400 for their middle tier window (Vintage?). And this includes the opening switch!

This seems like a lowball estimate to me. He said it included visible damaged wood replacement, but not hidden rotten wood. Which seems to me like the start of the hedge...

We're going to try to get a couple more estimates (Aluminum Company - sells Great Lakes, and Pioneer Exteriors - also sells Gorell). I don't know if that will help us any, but I know we're not getting real good vibes from any of our options so far...

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#9 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

We got an estimate from Aluminum Company tonight. Turns out, they do not sell Great Lakes anymore, they sell Alside. They quoted us the Excalibur model for $10,450, including the opening switch.

This seems like the best deal to me. The windows weren't quite as good as the Gorell or the Simonton, but they seemed good enough to me.

Can anyone say if we would be much worse off with the Alside Excalibur vs the Gorell or the Simonton?

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#10 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

Finally, we got a quote from Pioneer Exteriors, on the Gorell 5155. Full job plus the opening switch for $10,333.

The previous Gorell salesman was showing the 5300 series, which obviously has more bells and whistles. But at $14k after a high pressure sales pitch, plus not doing the opening switch, Pioneer seems the better bet.

It seems most people agree that the 5300 is a better window, but that the 5100 series is still a fine window. We didn't actually get a demo of the 5100, though, since we told him we'd already seen the Gorell. Can someone give me a good feature comparison?

Is this decision as clear cut as it seems to be?

TarheelGrad1998
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: NC

#11 Post by TarheelGrad1998 »

We had Pioneer Exteriors install the Gorell 5155 series, and they just finished the install today. Took them about 3.5 days to install. Took them more work to get our old steel frame windows out than they had anticipated, but otherwise the install went well.

So far, we are very satisfied with the windows. They seem to be solid windows, and they are definitely a big improvement over what we had, especially with noise installation.

Anyway, just wanted to finish this story. We definitely did lots of homework, but I think we made a good decision. If disaster strikes, though, I'll post again.

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