A few questions about Simonton Patio Doors and Windows

[oceanengineer]

I am planning to replace all the windows and patio doors in my 25-year home in Houston, TX. I have had one company come by (recommended by a neighbor) and give me a quote for Simonton Reflections windows with the LowE/Argon package but not many other details. In reading several posts on this site I see that there are additional options and questions I need to ask (and plan to) regarding upgrades etc. but I wanted to see if anyone had any answers to my questions below.

I have 18 windows that need to be replaced - to be specific I have listed the approx sizes below:

- 46 (w) X 48 (h) - picture
- 23 X 48 (2 units) - picture
- 42 X 72 (3 units) - picture
- 72 X 72 (4 units) - picture or dual single hung
- 64 X 78 (2 units) - picture
- 58 X 48 - picture (obscure)
- 23 X 36 - dh (obscure)
- 46 x 27 - pnl (obscure)
- 48 X 72 (2 units) - pnl
- 42 X 72 - sh (obscure)

I also have 4 sliding patio doors:

- 6 feet wide (3 units)
- 8 feet wide (1 unit)

He has given me a base price of $415 / window installed (average over all above). Based on how he has written his quote it looks like the 72 x 72 windows are considered to be 2 windows if they are single hung or one if they are a picture window - I assume this is because they may have to use two 36 wide windows to make the one 72 but based on that I may just go with picture windows since I have never opened them over the past 3 years (have a patio door in the same room). He has also quoted me a price for tempered glass (for the 72 x 72) as $140 / surface.

The pricing for the patio doors installed were $1075 installed for the 6 foot wide and $1330 for the 8 foot door. He did not have any info on the patio doors but "assured me" they were of very good quality but that Simonton doors were expensive. On the surface they seemed expensive (I guess I have spent too much time at home depot/lowes) but I can see for well constructed doors that it could be reasonable - its just difficult to decide on them w/o seeing them. I am also getting pricing for the replacing the siding on the house and he says he has given me a good discount on the windows.

I plan to ask him for more details over the next few days but wanted to see if anyone had any comments regarding the price / window, and the price for the patio doors (I am assuming they are the Reflections 5500 series - he had just indicated that they were the Reflection series). Also is it reasonable to assume that single hung 72 x 72 windows would cost twice as much as 72 x 72 picture windows? Also I assume that the base strength of the glass is the same irrespective of size. I guess it would make strength to upgrade the strength of the large picture windows?

Any comments / suggestions you would have would be appreciated.

Thanks
[/list]

[ChurchGuy]

Which installer did you use? Which windows did you settle on? I also live here in Houston and have been lookinig at Gorell 5300 and Simonton 9800 windows. No final decision yet.

[randy]

The price per window is very good. The price on the doors is also very good. Simonton 5500 windows are a good choice, but can be made significantly better by upgrading to the optional sash reinforcement and Super Spacer glass package. Together, these options will cost around $30.00 per window, a good investment, IMO. The sash reinforcement will take the Design Pressure rating from about 25 to 50. Particularly important if you are closer to the gulf.

One 72 x 72 picture window is less expensive than two double hungs, (twin double hung) mulled together, but not half the price. Typically it is about 30% less. The strength of the glass does vary by size. In smaller windows, Simonton will use single strength glass (3/32"), while in the larger windows Simonton will use double strength glass (1/8"). In very large windows, they will go up to 3/16" glass.

If the installation is well done, meaning the windows are not just caulked in, you are getting a good price on the windows and doors.

Good luck.

[oceanengineer]

Thanks for the input - I was out of the country for a few weeks and disn't keep up with the responses to my post. I will follow up on the upgrades you recommend.

[tah]

The pricing for the patio doors installed were $1075 installed for the 6 foot wide and $1330 for the 8 foot door. He did not have any info on the patio doors but "assured me" they were of very good quality but that Simonton doors were expensive. On the surface they seemed expensive (I guess I have spent too much time at home depot/lowes) but I can see for well constructed doors that it could be reasonable - its just difficult to decide on them w/o seeing them. [/list]

Yes Simonton doors are not cheap. Look at it this way....Isn't a patio door at least as heavy/complicated as about 4 windows? If you're willing to spend 400~500 for windows (or more), why murder the install with cheap doors? The Simonton patio door will cost the dealer about what this guy wants to charge you as an installed price. Don't EVER install a door sight unseen, and if possible look at the Simonton and the other door side-by-side. I think you'll go with the better doors.

BTW, Lowe's/Home Depot doors are not all cheap. They advertised a patio door here (Richmond, VA) for $1800 or $1900. Then you have to have it installed. This is a Pella door, 10 year warranty, 1 year labor. We install the Simonton patio door for $2200. MUCH better warranty and we'll cover labor as long as we're around, which we intend to be a long time!

[oceanengineer]

Thanks for the feedback.

Since I first posted it I have been able to learn a lot more about the Patio doors but seeing them fist hand seems to be difficult in Houston - I have yet to find a showroom with the doors.

In discussing the doors with my contractor he confirmed that the doors he had quoted were not the Reflection Series 5500 patio doors but the Simonton Pro Finish Patio doors. I need to get him to provide me with the detail specs for these doors as I see the base models are air-filled with no low-E or tempered glass. He has also just quoted me a price to upgrade to the Simonton 5500 patio doors of $240 / door with an additional $84 to upgrade to the Superspacer. For the larger patio door the upgrade price was closer to $350 + $84.

How does the Pro Finish doors compare to the 5500 doors - in my mind if the price he has quoted me does not include the lowE and argon package+tempered glass it looks like the 5500 doors are a much better value.

I also discovered that the original pricing for the windows (at the head of this thread) was for the 5300 series and not the 5500 as I have stated. To upgrade to the 5500 with Superspacer I would need to pay about $50/window which seems reasonable to me. I have also decided to have two of the large picture windows tempered at $120/surface as my son runs by the existing windows everyday.

I'd appreciate any feedback you can give me on the patio doors.

[Bill]

The ProFinish door is standard with Tempered glass it is building code. In both the 5500 and ProFinish door the standard glass is clear; you need to upgrade to the Low-e/Argon in both cases and Super Spacer is available in both doors. The 5500 is a heavier nicer looking door compared to the ProFinish and the 5500 is DP-50 standard compared to the ProFinish DP-35. I have listed the specs on both doors with Low-e/Argon upgrade below.

72" (O) X 80" (O) (6068) 5500 Reflections White Patio Door (2-Lite) Left Opening (XO); Int. Handle White; Ext. Handle White; Rough Opening Size; BOX; 1'' IGU Thickness; Super Spacer; Low E Softcoat (Prosolar); Argon Gas; Double Glazed; Temper All All; Double Strength (1/8"); Half Screen Fiberglass Roll-Formed Scr Mold; A9 All Rails&Stiles; Keyed Multi Point Locks; Corrosion Resist Roller/Glide; Glass Warranty (UI=152"); DP:50; Test Number=64836.01; U-Factor:.31; SHGC:.28; Unit qualifies for ENERGY STAR region(s): Northern, North Central, South Central, Southern


72" (O) X 80" (O) (6068) ProFinish Contractor White Left Opening DR XO; Handle White; Rough Opening Size; DLX; Intercept; Low E Softcoat (Prosolar); Argon Gas; Double Glazed; Temper All All; Double Strength (1/8"); Half Screen Fiberglass Roll-Formed Scr Mold; E5 All Stiles(SL/EV); Keyed Locks; Corrosion Resist Roller/Glide (UI=152"); DP:35; Test Number=05-30625.01; U-Factor:.30; SHGC:.31; Unit qualifies for ENERGY STAR region(s): Northern, North Central, South Central, Southern

I hope this is of some value.

Bill

[oceanengineer]

Thanks Bill - I appreciate the input.

I thought it was odd that the doors were not tempered (that's what the Simonton website says in one place) and that the Profinish doors can be obtained with the Superspacer. I think the price my contractor has quoted me is for the LowE/Argon package with the Pro Finish doors as he indicated that everything he had quoted me on was LowE/Argon.

I have a brochure for the 5500 and like the look of the door (with the fairly wide frame) - are the Pro Finish Doors similar in appearance? or do they have a narrow frame?

Based on your experience are the differences in strength and quality of the Pro Finish doors to the 5500 doors similar to the differences between the 5300 and 5500 series windows - I like the fact that I can get the Superspacer upgrade for the ProFinish doors - would you also expect this to cost around $80?

Thanks

[Bill]

We have used the ProFinish door from time to time and it is an OK door but yes it has a much narrower frame and you would see that same difference in structure when comparing the two patio doors as you saw when you compared the 5300 & 5500 windows.

The 5300 is a window that never made much sense to me; it is a 5050 with a stepped sill and low-e/argon standard and the added features makes it too close in price to the 5500 not to just make the next step. If I need a less expensive window I use the 5050 and add the low-e/argon and this way you get more separation in price from the 5500.

And to add to the absurdity if you take the 5300 and add Super Spacer the window is a little more expensive than the 5500 without Super Spacer. I would take the 5500 without Super Spacer over the 5300 with Super Spacer.

Bill