Vinyl Windows SECURITY...

[lycos]

I have 15 yr old aluminum windows, and I was looking at replacing them with vinyl... but a major concern is the Security side.
Vinyl windows look more vulnerable to intruders than metal ones... they appear to be very easy to break in / open / unlock / defeat.
Any idea how to deal with that... or should I stick with aluminum?

[Window4U (IL)]

Your fears are unfounded. The only way a thief is going to be breaking through most vinyl windows is to actually break the glass. An intruder would find it much easier just kicking in the back door.

[mighty zimbo]

...unless you have windows with exterior glazing stops. That's always seemed like an unwise idea to me.

[lycos]

...unless you have windows with exterior glazing stops. That's always seemed like an unwise idea to me.

Yes that's what I found: most of them have exterior glazing stops.

[mighty zimbo]

Well keep looking. There are plenty of good windows with interior stops.

[Dan]

Even if you remove the exterior glazing stops the glass is held in using some sort of silicone, glazing tape or hot applied butyl. I seriously doubt that you could get many pieces of glass removed from a window by removing the stops.

[lycos]

Well keep looking. There are plenty of good windows with interior stops.

There is a bigger problem with interior stops: in Florida and in the South, Hurricane Wind (75 mph and up) may pop / eject them, and the Insulated glass (IG) they were holding in place gets loose and may become a lethal projectile inside... not to mention that (broken windows) will cause the destruction of the building they are suppose to protect from wind invasion...
What is needed is a better locking and secure system... I don't think it takes a genius to do that!!!
.

PS I am referring to the glass not the stops becoming a lethal projectile!

[randy]

lethal, flying glazing stops

That's a new one.

If the pressure has built to such a level, so as to blow out the interior glazing stops, I would fear the far more lethal flying IG unit. Then again, one of those little glazing stops could leave a nasty welt.

[FenEx]

Randy... that was funny.

lycos... your points are even more entertaining.

I see the headlines now, " Family survives hurricane but critically injured and home destroyed by interior glazing bead bent for destruction!" Insulated glass unit is still in place and owner expects full warranty coverage from manufacturer on seals.

lycos.. you need to put an "LOL" after statements like that, or people will think you are trying to be serious. If indeed you were serious , you should be bottle fed and restrained from sharing your thoughts.

[lycos]

Randy... that was funny.

lycos... your points are even more entertaining.

I see the headlines now, " Family survives hurricane but critically injured and home destroyed by interior glazing bead bent for destruction!" Insulated glass unit is still in place and owner expects full warranty coverage from manufacturer on seals.

I was referring to the flying glass not the stops themselves... Because the wind pressure will dislodge the glazing stops and then the glass will be all over..

[FenEx]

Wrong again. All internal glazing beads that I have ever seen lock down and inward into the sash extrusion, meaning external pressure on the glass surface would only hold the beads in tighter. The glass would give long before the beads will tear. Anyone who has ever replaced the IG in any unit will attest to this. Even IG's sealed to the frames by any method (all) are almost impossible to remove or exchange without breaking the glass.

Your views are completely without foundation. You might want to put your replies in the form of questions instead of statements, unleast until you have factual information to share as other readers may simply accept type as fact.

[Window4U (IL)]

I don't agree Lycos, (at least with the products FenEx and I both use).

Maybe there are very weak windows that are not wet glazed or taped where this could happen....? stranger things have happened...but I do not believe it would happen with a Dade Co. coastal hurricane approved window, or for that matter most all windows that are sold today.
For example, FenEx's and my favorite window (Schuco) has interior stops and this window is rated a DP65 and surpasses rigid coastal hurricane testing requirements by hefty margins. If the stops had any chance in the world to fail then Dade County hurricane testing and 195 mph winds would surely have uncovered it, wouldn't you think? Plus, there is more than just stops holding the glass like FenEx stated. The glass would go well before the stops.

If you have some data, test results, or photos showing this happening on a window I'd be more than happy and interested to look at it. I'm always open to having my mind changed.

[lycos]

Wrong again. All internal glazing beads that I have ever seen lock down and inward into the sash extrusion, meaning external pressure on the glass surface would only hold the beads in tighter. The glass would give long before the beads will tear. Anyone who has ever replaced the IG in any unit will attest to this. Even IG's sealed to the frames by any method (all) are almost impossible to remove or exchange without breaking the glass.

Your views are completely without foundation. You might want to put your replies in the form of questions instead of statements, unleast until you have factual information to share as other readers may simply accept type as fact.

My original concern was and still is SECURITY which I don't think is adequate at all!... the rest came about a post mentioning Interior Stops which led to my reasoning above...
Find out how Hurricane wind works and what it is capable of doing when it exerts pressure on things;... and how buildings get destroyed because of window failure... and you will find that my logic / deductions in case of a cat. 3-4 hurricane is not far fetched!
I think I will keep my aluminum windows for the time being!

[lycos]

Wrong again. All internal glazing beads that I have ever seen lock down and inward into the sash extrusion, meaning external pressure on the glass surface would only hold the beads in tighter.

I was able to remove those beads using a (kwickset) house key after removing the stops using naked fingers.
That is my main concern: some degree of security!... otherwise I may as well leave the front door unlocked... that way there will be less broken windows due to intruders!

[Dan]

Lycos,

While you were taking out the glazing beads did you even bother to try removing the glass? I doubt that you would have been able to remove the glass from the outside. Every window I have ever seen with glazing beads had the glass held in place using either adhesives such as silicone or butyl or double sided glazing tape. You almost have to be on both sides of a window in order to remove the glass. It's a lot easier to break the glass and unlock the window or break the lock using a pry bar than it is to remove the glass in a window.