Schuco vs Simonton vs Champion vs ??

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fresno
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:18 am
Location: North Shore - Boston

Schuco vs Simonton vs Champion vs ??

#1 Post by fresno »

OK, so I’ve been lurking (trolling?) on these replacement window bulletin boards for a couple of months now as I prepare for replacing the windows in our home. I was certainly a neophyte and naïve to the replacement window industry before I started looking around. These boards have definitely provided a wealth of information and have helped greatly to this point, although I’m at a point where I’m having trouble with a final direction/decision. There are many regular posters out here who offer valuable advice and insight that is not otherwise available to people via the sales calls that window vendor reps make to our homes. Now, I obviously do not know anyone personally on this site but there are several folks here who I’ve actually grown to trust (fenex, windows4u, randy to name a few). I think the reason I have gained faith in these posters (and others here too! ) is that in addition to being very knowledgeable regarding replacement window brands and types and the whole process in general, they are 100% CONSISTENT in the content of their messages. I appreciate any feedback that folks can offer here and I want to express my appreciation for the owner(s) of this site for keeping it all real!

Alright, enough of the pleasantries and on to my current situation. We are looking to replace (9) double-hung windows and (1) double casement window.

For sizes, the double-hungs are:
Width = 31-5/8” x Height = 49-5/8” and the double casement window is
Width = 40” x Height = 38-5/8”

There is nothing obvious about taking out the old and installing the new that would make this a difficult replacement (i.e. – no rot, no other construction is needed, windows are easily accessed from both inside and outside the home, etc).

We’ve had Champion and NES (Schuco) come out to us and I’ve also priced Simonton 9800’s that a contractor friend of ours would install. Our situation is that we live in a pretty nice house that we have no plans of moving from; but we’re also not made of money. So, while we want to install good windows in the home and consider them permanent replacements, we cannot afford to break the bank and overpay so we’re trying to make as prudent a financial decision as we can as well. As you’d imagine, there are big differences in the quotes we’ve received as they’re vastly different products. I realize I cannot compare a Simonton 9800 to a Schuco Corona 4000 for performance but I’m trying to look at value/$ spent and I’m hoping to elicit feedback from folks here on what we’ve seen so far. On to the quotes….

Champion gave us an initial quote of $14k and then quickly dropped down to $6500. They would include a new storm door for us as well in that price. This offer seemed mostly fair but still sounded a bit high to me. We’ve also become a bit leery of Champion’s product after reading many posts on this site so we haven’t really considered going with them as yet.

The Simonton 9800’s installed by the contractor would be about $3800-$4000.

NES – ah, save the best for last. With all of the negative NES posts out here, we were reluctant to even contact them but the reputation of the Corona 4000s outweighed any of the posts and we wanted to see this window. I’d say the window pretty much sells itself; that is until the NES quotes start coming, anyway. The rep came out to us after blowing us off twice and having to cut a 3rd attempt short because my wife had to leave for an appointment and they refuse to present unless both spouses are present. As I mentioned, the 4000 window has enough features to warrant all the praise it receives out here. For some reason, however, the rep insisted on also including replacement of a 96”x39” picture window and another 56”x39” double casement window. Basically, he refused to offer a quote for just the double-hung windows…..I’m not really sure why. To his credit, he was polite throughout his spiel and did not bad mouth any of the other window vendors (except Simonton as you’ll read, lol).

So, we’re now looking at (9) double hung, (2) double casements, and (1) picture window. His 1st quote was $24k for the windows. When we scoffed at that figure, we were told that we qualified for their rebate program, which would give us 8% off. So, the quote is now about $22k for the windows. We told him we thought that was too high. The response was that the windows are 4x better than anything Champion could give us. Reworking the numbers again, changing some grid styles, and now being given a 35% discount, the next quote was for about $14,000 for the job. We mentioned that we still thought it was high (my rough guess was that we were still between $900-$1000 per double-hung). I mentioned that at this point, I was giving serious consideration to going with the Simonton 9800. The rep stated that I’d be better off leaving the old, drafty, non-working windows in place instead of replacing them with a Simonton. We basically finished up and parted ways shortly thereafter. So, after a long-winded post (sorry), we come to my questions:

1) Does the NES Schuco quote sound too high or was that in the ballpark? My gut tells me a fair quote would have been more like $9k. The 4000 would be my preferred window of those I’ve seen but I do not want to overpay at all for it.
2) Is the Simonton 9800 as bad as the NES rep made it sound? From what I’ve read out here, it seems to be a pretty good window and a sound value as a purchase.
3) We’ve also thought about looking at Gorell and I’ve seen other Massachusetts folks on these boards get much more reasonable quotes on Gorells than they did on Schucos. Are they worth a look? Does anyone know any reputable Gorell vendors in Eastern Mass? It seems like they might provide a good value per $ spent return if you find the right seller/installer.
4) There is a Marvin showroom right near us. Does anyone have any thoughts on Marvin windows?

Again, thanks in advance for any guidance. This site has been a tremendous help to us.

Joe

randy
Posts: 1064
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Location: Houston, TX
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#2 Post by randy »

fresno,

The Schuco Corona 4000, as you recognized, is a terrific window. However, at the price you were quoted, it would be a terrible investment, IMO. The Simonton 9800 with the triple pane, super spacer glass package would serve you very well, for as long as you choose to stay in the home. You will never miss the Schuco.

As Window4U, FenEx, and others here have said over and over. The Schuco window is the best choice in vinyl windows, but only if the particular Schuco dealer is fair in their pricing and competent in their installation. If you lived in the Chicago area, you could get one of these two to sell you the Schuco at reasonable prices!

I'd recommend you give your friend the business, (assuming he has particular experience in window installation) and forget about Champion and Schuco. You'll love the 9800.

Good luck to you, and thanks for the kind words.

fresno
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:18 am
Location: North Shore - Boston

#3 Post by fresno »

Thanks for the feedback, Randy. I believe that is how we are going to proceed (Simonton and contractor friend (he's been installing windows for 20+ years and we've seen his work so confidence is high)).

Some further info; We currently have Oriel style 8/12 grids on 8 of the 9 windows we're replacing and want to keep that style if po$$ible.

Interestingly, the Schuco vendor called and wanted to come back out again to discuss marketing-related incentives that are available for us that they didn't tell us about the last time out. They came out (a different rep from the last time, marketing manager this time), gave another spiel with the marketing incentive twist, and quoted us for the Oriel style on those windows. If we agreed to be a model home for them in this community/area, it would only cost $13,800 for the job (discounted from $25k list price). Unfortunately, we had to tell him it was out of our price range (as much as we'd love to become spokespeople for them :cry: ).

To compare apples to apples as much as we could, we added the 2nd double casement and picture window into the Simonton 9800 quote and added the Super Spacer, triple-glaze, and krypton fill options. We are looking at about $6,300 installed for the same windows. I mentioned again to the Schuco salesman that I've heard the 9800 with these options is a pretty good window and can be considered a permanent replacement. He scoffed and said he replaces Simontons every day. I actually showed him the quote on the 9800's. At first he said the quote had to be wrong, it was more like a $1000 window and in the next breath said the exact same quote as the first rep did "I would do nothing before I'd ever put a Simonton in". Must be a standard quote. Seems to take a while to get "no" to sink in with some sales folks. With two fussy kids past bedtime/feedtime, we had to cut things short. Not good times.

Thanks again for the feedback and we'd still appreciate any other comments or advice that anyone might have to offer.

randy
Posts: 1064
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Location: Houston, TX
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#4 Post by randy »

You should rent the move "Tin Men" with Danny Devito and Richard Dreyfus. This particular Schuco dealer operates much like the old siding salesmen. If I were you, I would have nothing further to do with NES. They have no credibility.

Simonton does not charge extra to make oriel windows, so by all means, keep them the same.

I'm sure Window4U and FenEx are gritting their teeth over NES and their distributorship of the Schuco window. A company that operates as you have described, should be avoided like the plague. They are completely dishonest.

Sounds like you're on the right track fresno. Again, the Simonton 9800 will serve you well.

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Window4U (IL)
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#5 Post by Window4U (IL) »

randy wrote: I'm sure Window4U and FenEx are gritting their teeth
Image + Image.......

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