Abcleads.com BBB Business Review  NAHB member
Call us at
1-800-870-7321


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Alside vs. Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 3
Offline
Anyone have any opinions between Alside Excalibur and Cardinal Crystol? The Cardinal window is made local in St. Louis. From the looks and pricing, they seem pretty similar, but was hoping someone has had experience with either or both.

Thanks.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:39 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
Offline
Mike I'm not familiar with the cardinal window, the alside excalibur is a descent window, it has a sturdy frame and is....well I guess that's all I can say for it. The frame on the excalibur is a little wider than your average frame..meaning you lose a little glass size, if you got a good installation you would be satisfied with the product. But you should'nt pay more than $250 a window installed on them. And if your budget will allow for more than that, I would choose a different window. Certainteed Bryn Mahr II for around 350-400 window installed is in my opinion the best bang for the buck.


Last edited by Profx on Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 9
Offline
I know this is a home-owner board but I have to ask how any legitament co. is going to make money selling windows for $250 installed.

example.
Est. cost of window......$150.00
Calking and insulation...$5.00
Labor to install.....$60.00
Total L & M......$215.00

Total Gross profit....$35.00 or 14%
Total overhead.....25% to 40%
Net Loss.....-$27.50 to -$65.00 or -11% to 26%

Now I know that you can get the windows installed for less (maybe) depends on area.
Maybe your overhead is less than 25% but I seriously doubt it.
Overhead Items....
Salaries & Commisions
Advertising
All Trucks and Auto
Fuel
Office Equipment & Supplies
Tools & equipment
Auto & Truck Licenses
Business Licenses
Auto & Truck Insurance
Utilities
Rent
Trade Associations
Training
Telephone
Postage
Cleaning
Coffee, soda, Etc.
Christmas Party & Gifts
Bank Service charge
Accounting
Professional Fees - other
Travel Expenses
Bad or Past Debt.
Liability Ins.
Truck Maintainance
New truck purchase (Deposit)
Hiring

Just wondering where all this great advice is coming from.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:22 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1326
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
Offline
Good post.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:01 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
Offline
Marc, Partner if you would read my post a little slower and not jump to conclusions your post would not have been required. The alside excalibur window is sold for $189 a window at window world, not including capping, interior trim, or any other of their add-ons. Since you speak like a contractor you should know that these windows in the 0-101 range go for about $100-110 bucks a piece, If you can't find or make a profit there, I can't help you. That is why I said on that particular window I would'nt pay more than $250 installed anything more wouldn't be worth it. And all contractors on this board know of the price of gen. liab., workers comp., licenses and fees, gasoline and all the other costs associated with running a business. If you need anymore GREAT advice, just start a post buddy.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 3
Offline
I received a quote for Alside Excalibur at $283 per window, the Sheffield at $298 per window. Both quotes not from Window World, they were more expensive. And yes it's $189 from Window World if you only want it installed, everything else is extra. By that time they were $310 per window for their version of the Excalibur.

The Cardinal windows were about $370 and the installer is a pretty reputable home improvement company that others I know have used.

Just wondering if it was worth the extra money for the Cardinal since they are only a local company, not a nationally known brand.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
Offline
mike I don't know anything about the cardinal at all, If it's a better quality window and you trust the contractor it might be worth the 70 or 80 extra dollars per window. I just wanted to clarify about the frame on the excalibur, I had it confused with the ultramaxx which is similar to the sheffield. The excalibur has thin frames and sash rails which wouldn't impact your glass size, but if you could get the sheffield for $15 more, me personally I would go that route. Although with the sheffield like the ultramaxx you would lose some glass size, but it's a much sturdier window.And yes win world has several add-ons, the $189 is deceiving. But it shows how a legitamate company can make money at 250 installed.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: reply
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
Offline
Profx

Marc was dead on. If you work out of the back of your pick-up with no overhead... so be it. The rest of us know that people that make large investments expect large, long run returns. Your viewpoint appears to indicate that a doctor who gives $10.00 in bandaids should only get a check for $30 bucks per visit! SOME of us provide much more than nails and screws. We provide decades of earned information and services from companies that actually can afford to stand by things such as WARRANTIES and hire properly trained and fully insured installers.

I have modified this post as the original appeared to be on the aggressive side. My apologies. My objection to your post is that it comes across as over-generalized price conditioning. Stating a price cap for any window with installation without knowing the style (dbl-hung, casement, etc), size, installation difficulty, geographic cost of doing business, overhead, etc. is absurd. Then you back that by implying that is what a "legitimate" company should charge? If that's true then I guess I don't know any legitimate companies.


FenEx


Last edited by FenEx on Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:31 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
Offline
Fen X, Let's start off by looking at this thread, the original poster wanted to know what anyone thought about two windows alside and cardinal, I only knew of one of the windows, told him what that window should usually run him installed. AND THEN TOLD HIM OF A BETTER WINDOW IF IT WAS IN HIS BUDGET, where did i say there is no value in investing any more?I reply to these topics to help people, if I think I can lend a little insight, I will. No, fenestration expert I don't have decades in this industry, but I do have respect for people and have gave every job I've ever done my best. Your post was personal Fen X, let me tell you something I might be new in business, but MY work ethic, my workmanship, and the way I treat people will carry me through until I'm an old man. No my business might not be located in "new york/chicago" but we do have a nice shop and office that is paid for, and man only two employees me and my stepfather, and everything goes through our hands, from selling, to measuring, to installing. We both take PRIDE in our work and give everyone our best job. That will insure our livelyhood. In the past I have enjoyed reading your replies, you seem to know a whole lot about this industry, and I have learned a lot from you and w4u and guy and respect your posts. That's why I can't figure out why you would attack me personally like this, but then I remembered I've seen you do this to several people. Try to replace the negativety in your life with a little positive attitude and respect. You'd probably be happier. And thats the rats ass. Profx


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:15 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
Offline
You're right FenEx, the price I told him to expect would probably be industry minimum. And yes I don't think of geographic location, other companies overhead, and difficulty of installation. I will think from now on before quoting general prices. But I don't think that's what a company has to sell a window for to make it a legitamate company, I was replying to marc's post which stated " I have to ask how any legitamate co. is going to make money selling windows for 250 installed" and I gave him an example of one that was doing it. All companies have different expenses and overhead, and different windows. I see nothing wrong with a company charging 4-600 dollars for a great window and there are customers who want those windows, just like there are customers who want a window in the 250-400 range. I usually go with winddow cost x 1.5. But with a lot more overhead not everyone can do that. Sorry for any confusion, I'm not trying to ruffle feathers around here, only learn and help if I can.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 9
Offline
Sorry I haven't posted....been a little busy

Maybe I'm reading this wrong

You said....I usually go with winddow cost x 1.5

Now this is just my opinion but this way of pricing is going to kill you in the long run.

Example:
Window cost $130.00
x 1.5 equals $195.00

You are working for a wages NOT profit. That's not what we start a business for, or at least it shouldn't be. I pay my installers more than your making and they don't have any of the responsibility of warranty.

We are not even close to the highest price in our area and we figure prices this way.

Window cost $130.00
insulation & Caulk $5.00
Labor $60.00
Total L & M $195.00
x 2.1 equals $410.00

This is just an example and we usually don't sell this cheap of a window. I hope you don't take this as a personal attack, but I hope it may open your eyes to a new way of thinking.

Lets just say you sold 5 windows for $195.00 where you will make Gross $65.00 each.
Something goes wrong and you've miss measured 2 of the windows. This will cost you $260.00 to replace the windows that were remeasured. What do you do? How much money do you make?

Sorry but I'm in business to make money. Not just keep myself busy.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 9
Offline
I thought about this after I posted.

Maybe.......Just Maybe, this isn't the place to be discussing pricing and overhead. Maybe this BB has a contractors section. I don't know. Pleas advise.

Marc


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:31 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1326
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
Offline
The only thing I would say to readers is that not many windows cost $130.00, though they can definitley be had by contractors.
There are builders-grade, mid-grade, and premium windows in the vinyl market and the price can vary greatly. For example, even though I carry some lower priced windows, there are a couple of windows that I sell that can cost me more than Marc sells his windows for installed. Like in most things it all comes down to quality, features, and options.


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 9
Offline
I was just using that number as an example.

If my overhead is 37%

Sell price $410.00
L & M $195.00
Overhead $152.00 or 37%
Net Profit $63.00


Is that too much to ask for?

Again These numbers are examples


Top
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
Offline
Marc sorry for the confusion, I guess I explain things wrong. I meant cost of window + x1.5 or I guess x2.5. I have no commisions to pay or labor to pay, since I do all installs myself. So cost of window ex. 110.00 x 1.5= 165.00+110.00 for window=275.00. Weird way of explaining I guess. My overhead is also very low, little advertising, insurances, fuel costs , materials, utilities, and thats about it. I'm not trying to get rich, just keep my stepfather and I busy every day. Man, Marc I hope you did'nt jinx me on the mismeasures so far I haven't missed any, transcribed a few wrong on the orders, but no misses.


Top
 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group