An installation method question for the experts

[tadc]

Greetings all.

My house (built 1944) has many of the original wood double hung windows. I'm replacing 8 original wood doublehungs, along with 1 aluminum slider and 1 mystery double hung that appears to have been a cheap block-installed replacement from some years ago - this window includes a cut-down to increase the opening size. Also a small basement hopper window and 1 kitchen door. The windows are Milgard Tuscany in both cases.

The house has vinyl siding, and surrounding the windows is flat metal trim and J-channel, which from what I've read is pretty standard. Storm windows are installed on top of all that.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here are a few pics of what I'm talking about:
http://picasaweb.google.com/thadddeus/WindowPics

So, company #1, who has an impeccable reputation and the highest price, tells me that doing a block install with this sort of window trim is a bad idea and can lead to water infiltration and problems down the line. They want to rebuild the trim using "cellular brick mould". They are asking a little over 10k for the whole job. Note that all my communication has been with a salesperson who hasn't impressed me with the breadth of her technical knowledge.

Company #2, which also has a great rep, is a small mom-and-pop shop, in business for 30 years and has a price about 3.5k less than #1. They say that this is not necessary and a standard block install, retaining original trim, should be fine. This comes straight from "pop", and not a technically deficient salesperson.

So I come to you, the experts, for your opinion. What say ye?

Thanks for your input.

[shamu]

Company # 2. Does their quote include new wrapping/capping?

[chevyman]

If the window is trimmed out properly there is no need for new brick molding.
and the existing wood is still in good shape under the wrapping.

[tadc]

As far as I know the #2 quote does not include new wrapping/capping.

From the limited view of the pics I posted, do the windows look correctly trimmed?

Thanks again.

[Windows on Washington]

As far as I know the #2 quote does not include new wrapping/capping.

From the limited view of the pics I posted, do the windows look correctly trimmed?

Thanks again.

Company #2 and I would be willing to bet that his quote includes wrapping.

[tadc]

Company #2 and I would be willing to bet that his quote includes wrapping.

Maybe (probably!) I'm confused. Does wrapping mean replacing the exterior vinyl/metal trim pieces, or does it mean something else?

Thanks again.

[Windows on Washington]

Company #2 and I would be willing to bet that his quote includes wrapping.

Maybe (probably!) I'm confused. Does wrapping mean replacing the exterior vinyl/metal trim pieces, or does it mean something else?

Thanks again.

You are correct. Wrapping, capping, exterior trim, etc. means wrapping the exterior trim. In this case, removing the existing and re doing it. You can try to preserve it during the removal but it almost always get damaged.

[buddy110]

Adding a brick mold is an asthetic approach. What you have is weather tight. I will say however, the brick mold idea would look better.

I might simply build the casing out with a 1X?? and cap that. That way the bend is a bit stronger because it is in the shape of a "U" rather than an "L".
What you have now I refer to as a jumped casing. It was a common technique used in the 70's-80's. An installer simply bends the aluminum in an "L" shape and jumps over it with the J channel. It's fast and effective.

B

[Windowman]

Company #2 the coil wrap is already in place and looks good, you will only need to replace it if you are cutting down the window. When I replace (old) wood windows I do it from the inside most of the times and the outside is not damaged, depends how they did it the first time to put in those alum windows

[tadc]

You are correct. Wrapping, capping, exterior trim, etc. means wrapping the exterior trim. In this case, removing the existing and re doing it. You can try to preserve it during the removal but it almost always get damaged.

Had the installer out today for the 2nd measurement. He confirmed that they will do the windows from the inside and retain the existing external trim/wrap(except for the cut-down of course).

Given that fact, are you still voting for #2?

[Window4U (IL)]

I wouldn't leave that old looking metal trim on.
Once you take off the storm windows there will probably be a caulk line across the sill, and the exterior stops that are now covered by the storm window will be visible and I am certain they are not presently covered with metal.
To make the window look half decent they will have to at least cover the stops with metal, if not the sill too.

It only takes a few minutes more to re-wrap the whole window, and it makes the job so much nicer looking. I couldn't in good conscience not wrap those windows if it were one of my jobs.

If it were me, I wouldn't use either company with the methodology they have proposed. Look for someone with some serious skills and pride in their work.

[Windows on Washington]

I wouldn't leave that old looking metal trim on.
Once you take off the storm windows there will probably be a caulk line across the sill, and the exterior stops that are now covered by the storm window will be visible and I am certain they are not presently covered with metal.
To make the window look half decent they will have to at least cover the stops with metal, if not the sill too.

It only takes a few minutes more to re-wrap the whole window, and it makes the job so much nicer looking. I couldn't in good conscience not wrap those windows if it were one of my jobs.

If it were me, I wouldn't use either company with the methodology they have proposed. Look for someone with some serious skills and pride in their work.

I am with Window4U on this one. Re-wrapping is pretty standard practice to make a complete and finished product. I also would not install from the inside out.

[tadc]

Well, company #1 has (after coming out with a non-sales person to look at the job) given me 3 options, including block-install from the inside, re-wrapping the windows, or going all the way down to the studs and doing a fin-and-trim. Now I'm leaning toward option 2.

Sigh, so many variables...

[Skydawggy]

As long as there's no indication of rotted wood, or air leaks, I'd go with option #2.