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 Post subject: Schucco: DC Metro Area PROBLEM with 3-part Slider
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:48 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 31
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In May, we had 12-14 3-pane krypton filled schuco windows installed.

The installers had an immediate problem with the 3-part slider.

The window(s) wouldn't open properly without ALOT of undo force. A week or two went by and they sent someone out to tweak on it and could not fix it.Then another crew came out with the window engineer and failed again. We waited another 2 months until I posted some bad press on this website and within 48 hours I had them set up another appointment to "LOOK" at this 3-part slider.

They finally got some cowboy down from Conneticuit, Schuco central, to lend his expertise. They spent an hour looking at it again.

A few days later, yet another crew comes and removes the entire window, squares their custom window frame and re-installs the entire mess. In the meantime, they have drilled more holes, placed plastic caps to cover these holes, beaten the crap out of the trim, casing and the window still doesn't work....WHADAYMEAN IT DOESN'T WORK?

It took me, the consumer to tell them initially that the ^&&%# their custom window frame was out of square and it takes me the consumer to tell them that the window probably wasn't manufactured properly...

I may be wrong but i am just the consumer.....

here are some picturesImage

or actually just vist the page:

http://www.vincedaddy.com/screwedupwindow.htm

The right window is maybe 1-2 mm too tall and doesn't clear the casing to open. The Right window pins line up in the center to swing out for cleaning.

The left window's pins do not allign; when the bottom pin is in, the top is out and vice-versa. The last installer decided to get creative and start drilling holes everywhere and couldn't figure what was going on.

So here we are. A 3-part slider-unfinished- since MAY 2005, without " f-in" window shades on an East facing window during the hottest summers around here since the Grateful Dead played at the CapCenter in recent memory.

So they are coming tues at 1100, nope, i forgot they cancelled this apoint and re-schedule for the next day wednesday to come back out with the last window installer with all the solutions to "FIX" this problem....he wanted to to install some addtional window hardware that i know will not work , to channel the window over, that would make it impossible to slide this window out. (not a good explaination, but trust me he doesn't know what he is talking about!).

So this isn't about trying to soil the name of this company. this is about dragging their feet since May for one reason or another. This is about a free garage door they threw in and we are grateful for that. This is about 4 months later these people cannot figure out what is wrong with this 3-part slider.

Bottom line:

I don't know what the bottom line is and they don't either. You do not install another window in your company until the last job is working perfectly. I have been hearing the same exact scripted recital, ever so politely, that they will do whatever it takes to make this work perfectly , it has been since MAY 2005.

They also installed windows with different latching systems...some have the automatic some have the conventional window locks.....these items they said would be in a week or 2 after the initial installation....

Beware of the 3 part slider.

Withhold the last payment to ANYONE for 2-3 weeks after the installation , especially in a high volume market such as the DC Metro area. These companies, and mostly everyone in these trades around here are so EFFIN busy during their window season that they cannot possibly serve their go-zillion customers when shit like this happens until, well like now.

I am sorry have to spew again on this powerful bulletin board, but the fall is coming. They are coming out again but it will not be for the last time.


Last edited by vdotmatrix on Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:00 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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The Schuco sliders are high-tech engineering and MUST be installed properly. The most important part of this is to level the framed sill prior to the installations. I know of hundreds of these windows that were installed properly without any operational problems. Don't give up until they get it right and you are completely satisfied.


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 Post subject: Re: Reply
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:13 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 31
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FenEx wrote:
The Schuco sliders are high-tech engineering and MUST be installed properly. The most important part of this is to level the framed sill prior to the installations. I know of hundreds of these windows that were installed properly without any operational problems. Don't give up until they get it right and you are completely satisfied.


I thought the pictures would come through but i guess you'll have to go to the link....it is exasperating to have crew after crew come over tweak and bang on the shit, only minimal sucess and change. I had to closely investigate and document and photograph the problems with the windows-t
all these guys are in production mode-bamm bamm- on to the next job. i am being a little unfair here with this company but it has been more than enough time to remedy the situation...

does the fact that the pins do not line up on the right and the right hand window on the left point to a manufacturing problem or installation?


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:28 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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The production methods used by Schuco insure a perfectly square master frame and sashes. The window assembly is shipped with the sashes installed and pins engaged... so they do in fact line up. If the sill is bowed at all or the units sides are even slightly scewed or out of plumb leaning in or out (if they tried to make it flush to your existing trim), the pins will not align properly. I guess there is always the possibilty for a manufacturing error, but this type of problem is most common with installation errors with this product.

Grab an accurate level and check the sill, top and sides (up and down & in and out). In addition to being straight, level and plumb, measure the entire unit diagonally corner to corner both directions. These measurements should be identical if the unit was installed square. I am pretty sure you will find the culprit. Let me know what you find.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1335
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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Most of the time, what FenEx just said is totally accurate with the sliders and probably is in your case too.

Just to be sure it's not something else, let me give you something to check....
A couple of months ago I had 2 inline windows on a job I personally installed where the top "swing-in" holes in the frame were off by a little over 1/4" compared to the bottom holes. Somehow their jig must have gotten off. All the squaring, shimming, and leveling I did had no effect trying to get these to work before I realized the problem and ordered the new frames.
Just to be sure this is not what happened with yours, measure from each side of the jamb to the center of the holes top and bottom. If they are off, you may need a new frame.
The overall quality of the Schuco window sometimes makes us forget that errors can occur occasionally even with the best windows made.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Those ARE phenominal windows. I did notice, however, that alot of the larger size sliders I saw, when I sold Schuco's, were a little problematic, similar to this problem. never as bad, though.
I agree this is probably, most likely, an installation problem, not a manufacturer problem.
Thios pins fit exact and have to be lined up exact to operate.
As said, if the frame is out of plumb, the window is probably going to follow.


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 Post subject: reply: checked measurement and level
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 31
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DID YOU GUYS SEE THE PICTURES ON THE WEBSITE?

http://www.vincedaddy.com/screwedupwindow.htm

i checked the distance from the side(s) to the center of the hole and i get 57 3/8" and 57 7/16". Are they built to such strict tolerances as to malfunction if off by just a smidge.

Now I am not sure if the vinyl stuff i was measuring from the side to the hole IS the actual side of the frame/jamb OK.


When I measured the level the left side was just slightly off, the right side was right on.

The right window is the hardest to open.

Window4U (IL) wrote:
Most of the time, what FenEx just said is totally accurate with the sliders and probably is in your case too.

Just to be sure it's not something else, let me give you something to check....
A couple of months ago I had 2 inline windows on a job I personally installed where the top "swing-in" holes in the frame were off by a little over 1/4" compared to the bottom holes. Somehow their jig must have gotten off. All the squaring, shimming, and leveling I did had no effect trying to get these to work before I realized the problem and ordered the new frames.
Just to be sure this is not what happened with yours, measure from each side of the jamb to the center of the holes top and bottom. If they are off, you may need a new frame.
The overall quality of the Schuco window sometimes makes us forget that errors can occur occasionally even with the best windows made.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1335
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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A 1/16 of an inch is not enough to matter. That is easily within tolerances on that window.
They need to re-install the window first by leveling the sill in both directions and making sure it is perfectly straight, and then squaring the window from there.
I wish I were closer. I'd come do it myself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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make them start over with a new window not just a new frame from what i can see its all buggered up now.
It looks like the sill is bowed under the operating sash which will also cause the window to be out of square where the sashes meet and cause the operating pins not to line up properly even though the frame measures true and square at all points.
The window must be shimed properly at all operating points especially where it pivots in or it could own up to the name given to this typre of window in this industry ( THE SWING AND SUE )
It is imperative that the nose of the sill be supported fully or it will bow outward and also show the signs I saw in your pictures. I often use 2 1/4" door casing on old sloped sills as a shim along the entire lenghth of the window to eliminate this problem. Good luck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 31
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Well you know that's exactly what I told the Install Manager this morning. They have been out 4 times, the guy was suppose to bring some parts but they forgot to order them. The frame IS TWEAKED, The install initially was wrong and the has come and gone for this to be done correctly. That was it.....They have to rip it out and start all over again.

The guy told me they have put in hundreds of these windows, even bigger ones and they work PERFECTLY. So this is more an installation problem that it is a Schucco quality concern. Like i stated before these windows are incredible. The hottest place on the earth was outside my livingroom window's east facing view but you wouldn't know because the 3 krypton filled panes filtered out heat and we almost didn't need blinds.





handyman19619 wrote:
make them start over with a new window not just a new frame from what i can see its all buggered up now.
It looks like the sill is bowed under the operating sash which will also cause the window to be out of square where the sashes meet and cause the operating pins not to line up properly even though the frame measures true and square at all points.
The window must be shimed properly at all operating points especially where it pivots in or it could own up to the name given to this typre of window in this industry ( THE SWING AND SUE )
It is imperative that the nose of the sill be supported fully or it will bow outward and also show the signs I saw in your pictures. I often use 2 1/4" door casing on old sloped sills as a shim along the entire lenghth of the window to eliminate this problem. Good luck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:41 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 31
Offline
vdotmatrix wrote:
Well you know that's exactly what I told the Install Manager this morning. They have been out 4 times, the guy was suppose to bring some parts but they forgot to order them. The frame IS TWEAKED, The install initially was wrong and the has come and gone for this to be done correctly. That was it.....They have to rip it out and start all over again .

The guy told me they have put in hundreds of these windows, even bigger ones and they work PERFECTLY. So this is more an installation problem that it is a Schucco quality concern. Like i stated before these windows are incredible. The hottest place on the earth was outside my livingroom window's east facing view but you wouldn't know because the 3 krypton filled panes filtered out heat and we almost didn't need blinds.





handyman19619 wrote:
make them start over with a new window not just a new frame from what i can see its all buggered up now.
It looks like the sill is bowed under the operating sash which will also cause the window to be out of square where the sashes meet and cause the operating pins not to line up properly even though the frame measures true and square at all points.
The window must be shimed properly at all operating points especially where it pivots in or it could own up to the name given to this typre of window in this industry ( THE SWING AND SUE )
It is imperative that the nose of the sill be supported fully or it will bow outward and also show the signs I saw in your pictures. I often use 2 1/4" door casing on old sloped sills as a shim along the entire lenghth of the window to eliminate this problem. Good luck


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