Can't decide between LBL, Simonton and Polybau - Please Help

[citygirl]

Getting new windows should not be this hard!

We are currently looking to replace 8 windows with vinyl casements. We are looking at two installers, one selling Polybau, the other, Simonton 7300 and the LBLs with retractable screens. The Polybau saleman is telling us that both LBL and Simonton are terrible products and that LBL retractable screens break quickly and LBL is awful in terms of getting service. The Simonton and LBL saleman claims they sell Polybau but it's an inferior product and the company is corrupt. Every other salesperson we spoke to also focused on bashing all other products than the ones they were pushing. Every time we thought we made a decision, someone else came along and talked us out of it! I'm at a loss as to who to believe.

I would greatly appreciate a recommendation from someone who's familiar with these products. We love the retractable screen idea, but do they really break easily and is LBL known for refusing to service them? Which are best for energy efficiency and durability? Which of these products would you recommend? The price is very similar for all 3, with Polybau being a little cheaper.

Thanks in advance for all your help. God knows we need it!

[WindowInfo]

Getting new windows should not be this hard!

We are currently looking to replace 8 windows with vinyl casements. We are looking at two installers, one selling Polybau, the other, Simonton 7300 and the LBLs with retractable screens. The Polybau saleman is telling us that both LBL and Simonton are terrible products and that LBL retractable screens break quickly and LBL is awful in terms of getting service. The Simonton and LBL saleman claims they sell Polybau but it's an inferior product and the company is corrupt. Every other salesperson we spoke to also focused on bashing all other products than the ones they were pushing. Every time we thought we made a decision, someone else came along and talked us out of it! I'm at a loss as to who to believe.

I would greatly appreciate a recommendation from someone who's familiar with these products. We love the retractable screen idea, but do they really break easily and is LBL known for refusing to service them? Which are best for energy efficiency and durability? Which of these products would you recommend? The price is very similar for all 3, with Polybau being a little cheaper.

Thanks in advance for all your help. God knows we need it!

Choose the Simonton. Get a great install from a qualified local installer/carpenter. Remember salesmen get a cut of the pie. Deal with the installer and/or owner.

Gardenpartyfish what features don't you like about the Polybau. How does it compare to the Simonton? Also what is the percentage the salesman receive?

[Cheryl]

Hi Citygirl,

The story you tell is all too familiar with some West Coast Sales Organizations. Here are some performance numbers to compare. Simonton sells different products depending on location, with different products for the East and West Coast. From a brief time on the window websites, and AAMA and NFRC, I gathered the following numbers that speak for themselves.

Structural rating: R35 - Simonton, C35 for LBL, C-R55 for Polybau

U-Value; Simonton 7300 U=.35 Loe/air, U=.30 Loe/argon, LBL U=.34 is the lowest reported on NFRC, Polybau U=.29 Loe/air, U=.27 Loe/argon.

Good Luck in your search for a qualified dealer!

[Skydawggy]

Choose the Simonton. Get a great install from a qualified local installer/carpenter. Remember salesmen get a cut of the pie. Deal with the installer and/or owner.

With most of the successful companies in my area, very seldom are you "dealing with the owner." In fact the BBB and Consumer Affairs specifically warn against that type of advertising as it's usually a scam.

Any sizable and successful operation has salespeople regardless of the product because the "owner" is usually too busy running the business and is unable to deal with each customer individually.

I recently had a few quotes for replacing my heating and A/C system and the best value came from a salesman from large company that has been in business for many years. The worst BBB report was from an owner/installer. Seems he was a good craftsman but didn't handle money well and was too busy working on the next job to service previous customers.

Not saying there aren't a lot of good owner/installers in the window business, but blanket statements like yours only further the negative stereotype of all salesmen.

edited to add

Using the same logic, a consumer should also avoid any company that advertises in the Yellow Pages, runs print ads, has an Office Manager, new trucks and State of the Art Technology etc. Do you have any idea how much these types of expenses add to the selling price of the window?

[E-Z]

City Girl, in regards to the screens and their warranty, i must say screens are the most under protected item in a window and window companies shy away from dedicating a lot of resources to service their screens because there is too many things that could hurt a fragile screen and screen cloth i.e Pets,kids,adults, debries etc etc .....) I think screens are more of a common sense kindda thing. It would be wise to ask for the companies policy on screen warranties and get it in writting and whalaa problem solved.

As far as quality between one and another i'd say theyre pretty darn close, the solution would be in deciding which window apeals more to you as far as features and also finding out and asking for references on the installation crew that is going to be in charge of your project. You can get windows made of gold but if theyre not installed correctly they will perorm poorly.

Hope this helps. Good luck

E-z

[Skydawggy]

Typically smaller owner/installers who don't have the overhead of fancy showrooms, mass salesmen w/ fancy vehicles are a better bet. Replacement window buying with a salesman can be a lot like buying a car--a pain. Eliminate the middleman and buy from the owner

Many owner/salemean/installers are fairly new companys (if they are even incorporated) and haven't progressed to the point where they are able to expand their operations to meet the growing demand. According to the BBB here in Virginia, 95% of all contractors go out of business within the first 5 years. The majority of those are the type of operation you seem to recommend. The main reason is they don't understand the business end of their industry, fail to handle finances properly and don't understand the costs of marketing their company.

It's very entertaining when people get on here, who have never even purchased windows and fancy themselves experts. Heck, we've even had people on here who had a good experience with Home Depot and try to convince others their experience was typical while those of us who are actually in the industry know better and silently laugh.

BTW can you tell us what the recommended % of gross sales a contractor should spend on marketing the first 3 years and then what it should be after that?

[Skydawggy]

Getting new windows should not be this hard!

We are currently looking to replace 8 windows with vinyl casements. We are looking at two installers, one selling Polybau, the other, Simonton 7300 and the LBLs with retractable screens. The Polybau saleman is telling us that both LBL and Simonton are terrible products and that LBL retractable screens break quickly and LBL is awful in terms of getting service. The Simonton and LBL saleman claims they sell Polybau but it's an inferior product and the company is corrupt. Every other salesperson we spoke to also focused on bashing all other products than the ones they were pushing. Every time we thought we made a decision, someone else came along and talked us out of it! I'm at a loss as to who to believe.

I would greatly appreciate a recommendation from someone who's familiar with these products. We love the retractable screen idea, but do they really break easily and is LBL known for refusing to service them? Which are best for energy efficiency and durability? Which of these products would you recommend? The price is very similar for all 3, with Polybau being a little cheaper.

Thanks in advance for all your help. God knows we need it!

Citygirl,

We have carried Simonton windows for years. There are other equally good and some better windows out there. Some pros' will tell you why they think another brand is better but I doubt many would tell you the Simonton is a terrible window. We have dealt with many window manufacturers over the years and I can tell you Simonton ranks among the best in terms of customer service and quality.

I am unfamiliar with most "West Coast" windows so I can't really help you with Polybau and LBL. The difference between .31 U factor and a .27 U isn't going to produce any measureable difference in heating and cooling costs unless you live in an extreme climate. I'd be more concerned with installation quality and the factorys willingness to address warranty issues.

Hopefully someone from the West will chime in and be more helpful.

[citygirl]

Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions. It helps a lot to know that Simonton, our second choice, is a solid and dependable one. It's the one we're going to go with if we don't get a good degree of comfort with the durability of the LBL retractable screens.

This unique feature of the LBLs is the only reason I want the LBLs more than the Simontons. It's also the feature gives me the most pause from a hassle and durability standpoint. The adult decision is probably to not invest in a novelty feature that I don't trust not to break in 6 months. Still, I have a few more days before I have to make an adult decision. So, if anyone out there has had experience with these screens and can tell me if they actually continue to work well over time, I'd love to hear from you!