replacement windows, wood vinyl clad, South Central WI

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barks25
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replacement windows, wood vinyl clad, South Central WI

#1 Post by barks25 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:51 pm

I am currently looking to replace original wood sash windows with a wood vinyl clad window from Crestline. I have seen numerous non-favorable reviews of the vinyl windows from Crestline. I have not been able to find any reviews of the wood vinyl clad windows from Crestline. The house, located in south central WI, is about 70 years old. The windows I am starting with are located on an exposed bsmt. Three of the windows (one of which faces the Southwest) will be double hung and are 20" x 38". There will be a picture window 52" x 30". The last window 80" x 31" will either be a 25/50/25 split slider window or a split, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, casement/picture window. I will be using double pane, low e and argon. Cost is a big concern also. My main concern is am I wasting my time/money with Crestline wood clad vinyl windows. Any other recommendations...

Thanks in advance,
Scott

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#2 Post by ANOTHER WINDOW GUY » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:54 pm

Start over and erase the word Crestline when associated it with windows. There are a lot of affordable windows that will all out perform Crestline in price quality and energy efficiency. In Wisconsin we have hundreds of mfrg's represented.

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Window4U (IL)
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#3 Post by Window4U (IL) » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:01 pm

I Love Crestline.



...they are one of my favorite windows to replace.

barks25
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#4 Post by barks25 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:57 pm

Well a week has passed since my first post and lots of readings in this forum. I have had a window install company here to give me an estimate. I had left my name, etc with the get a window replacement people that advertise here. Well the experience left me with a "used car" salesman feeling. I am originally from Chicago and did have a business there before... so I thought why not give Republic windows a chance. I did garner a bit of advice and have changed the two 20"x38" double hung to a slider combo (45" x 38") and decided on the 25/50/25, slider/fixed window, instead of the 2 casement and fixed window. No grids, low e glass and looks like triple pane glass is the way to go. Now I have a question of argon vs krypton...is this worth the extra money. Also does the "Clean Glass" stuff work well? As you can well tell the budget has changed quite a bit since last week...oh well. BTW the quote from the company for, 4 Republic Enhancement windows with argon (krypton 10% more) instead of the original 5, was $4100 installed with tax(':shock:').

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#5 Post by buddy110 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:22 pm

I thought you were looking for a wood clad???? I am not a republic fan, though they do offer heat mirror which I DO like. If you still want a wood clad look at Marvin. They make a quality wood replacement.

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#6 Post by ANOTHER WINDOW GUY » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:59 am

You'll probably make a few more adjustments before your done shopping. I'm rarely in favor of switching to sliders because of there higher air infiltration test, so shop that style carefully. When selecting your glass package choose krypton if your going to triple glaze as it's far more effective in smaller air spaces and not much of a value in a double glaze set up.
Republic, has been around a long time but rarely selected as one of the favorites by most pro's. I'm not saying their good or bad, I just remember a lot of service issues with their sliders and as of a few years ago were still using the old spiral balance system in their double hungs. They are also a proponent of Heat Mirror and very few of us that have been around a while are willing to make that leap yet. Heat Mirror has some pretty good numbers without adding the extra weight of a third layer of glass and may regain it's ranking as one of the better systems, but because of price and past issues I'll wait a few more years before I'm sold. The price range your in should afford you a lot of choices, good luck and remember the install is just as important as the window.

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#7 Post by buddy110 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:11 am

In the late 80's I dealt with Ultra vinyl and it had a HM/argon.
Again in the early 00's I sold SL and kennsington with HM. All three windows were problematic. The usual QC stuff, crooked grids, sloppy sashes, etc. etc.. Like any winodow really. However, with repect to seal failures and HM glazing I have never had one service call, not one!
Popular mechanics said the HM was the single greatist invention of the 20th century. I happen to agree. Low E was derived from it.


I can't say that for intercept, low e argon.

I know people have knocked it. I suspect most of the knocks are simply sales techniques and BS. My experience has been 100% positive. I wish I could find a reliable manufacture of vinyl windows that incorporated it. I'd leave TPS in a heart beat!

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#8 Post by ANOTHER WINDOW GUY » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:20 am

I'm glad you've had such great sucess with HM. I've had nothing but problems from 1988-1996 and made a promise to never-ever-ever. But I do keep an open mind. I'm just waiting for a few more years to go bye. The spacer and manufacturing technique have a lot to do with it. I'd trust Cardinal or any properly made IG with Super Spacer or TPS when and if I get up the nerve to try it again.
Popular Mechanic's Hmmm.

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#9 Post by buddy110 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:32 am

What manufacturers were you using? I know a sunroom company that had tons of problems with HM also. I think in his case they were using a bad glazer. They have since switced to low e and are quite happy.

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#10 Post by Window4U (IL) » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:16 pm

I sold it from around it's release in 1981 to about 1986 in NuSash and Hurd windows, the 2 brands we carried.

I'll never EVER sell it again no matter what. They caused me to put millions of dollars worth of potentially defective windows into good people's homes who trusted me. I'm not sure of the total percentage of these units that went bad, but it was major systemic failure.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....

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#11 Post by buddy110 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:43 pm

Yes, I had heard the Hurd had experienced severe problems. Were they doing thier own glazing?

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#12 Post by ANOTHER WINDOW GUY » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:15 pm

We carried 4-Season Rooms and Hurd windows, the two biggest carriers of HM in the upper Midwest. Troubles, yup and plenty. I know Hurd was in court over it and lost due to improper manufacturing of the IG.
Last winter I went through two of the Cardinal facilities in Wisconsin and was quite impressed, I believe they are one of the largest IG manufacturers in the world and while there I asked a engineer what they thought about HM............the response was a decent product if you like to gamble. So I'll wait.

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#13 Post by buddy110 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:10 pm

That's the sunroom co. I was thinking of.
There must have been issues with the IG manufacturing proscess. Both Kennsington and SL (which uses edge seal) had no issues. The cost is high though. Hurd was a bad company from the get go. I'd bet the HM failures in the 4 season room was due in part to the thremally broken metal frames.

To be fair I had relatively limited exposure to the HM product. I'd guess I installed less than 4500 pcs. total between the three companies. I've done well over 20,000 TP's, most with intercept, non with SS and maybe 6,000 with TPS.

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#14 Post by barks25 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:46 pm

Waiting to get an estimate on Marvin Integrity windows from a local dealer. While searching for additional info about windows I found a company called Thermotech that uses fiberglass also. Their site (thermotechwindows.com) seems to have accurate info, including info about type of glass to use. Anybody have any info or dealings with this company.

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#15 Post by ANOTHER WINDOW GUY » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:12 am

Thermotech is out of Canada where there are a lot of fiberglass companies. Omniglass makes the raw poltrusion and sells their lineals to quite a few Canadian companies. At the time we spoke with them they didn't make a double hung window which is our biggest seller in Wisconsin. Accurate Dorwin is another fiberglass product sold in this region with a lot of different glass packs who also use the Omniglass products. I noticed in my earlier post I said I didn't suggest switching to sliders in most cases because of air infiltration, the exception would be two that come to mind. The Schuco inline slider, installed by someone very familiar with that product and some fiberglass products. In our office we have a large two lite Milgard slider and it performs as well as the casements also in the office. Fiberglass isn't for everyone, and the price is higher than vinyl. In Southern Wisconsin these are the fiberglass products I'm aware of. Milgard, Accurate Dorwin, Inline fiberglass, Comfortline and Marvin.

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