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 Post subject: warranty questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:36 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Suburbs west of Boston
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I was just reading the warranty for Trimline windows ( http://www.trimlinewindows.com/files/Wo ... rranty.pdf ).

Their warranty had two interesting lines:

> The insulating glass is warranted against defects ... within the sealed glass
> for twenty (20) years from date of installation, non square insulated glass
> is warranted for five years

Virtually all windows have non-square glass. Or does this refer to curved? Is this standard?

Then there was this line in the exclusions:

> This warranty does not cover windows that have been painted, varnished or coated with any substance.

Since all of their windows are wood, they all have to be painted or stained. Doesn't this give them an immediate out of any warranty claim?

I've seen similar exclusions for other manufacturers as well.

Comments?


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:52 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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Good for you... no to many people actually read and interpret the warranties. Keep looking around at others and you will see just how silly some can get with their exclusions. Here's one of my favorites from Pella:

"Argon. For Pella Impervia products labeled as having argon-filled insulating glass, Pella injects argon at the time of manufacture. No warranty is made as to the amount or percentage of argon present in the insulating glass. It is known that argon within insulating glass dissipates over time. The manner of use and conditions of installation of the product will affect the rate of dissipation of argon out of the insulating glass. Pella makes no warranty regarding the rate of dissipation of argon or the amount of argon remaining in the window at any time after manufacture. "


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:56 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:11 pm
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Location: Suburbs west of Boston
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So have you ever heard of a company denying warranty coverage for painting a wood window?


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:03 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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Not a specific case, no. You should realize that most warranties are written to protect the manufacturer while giving the consumer a false sense of security to buy the product. This is why most warranties are about 80% exclusions to coverage. Your best bet is to research to find the best products within your budget and thus try to avoid ever having to count on a warranty at all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Some great exclusions I've seen in different warranties:
Glass breakage, not the fault of Pella is not covered. Intentional or accidental damage (Is there another way that I don't know of??). Product failure. Glass breakage of any kind is not covered.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:11 am
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This is Andersen's glass and seal warranty....Premature failure of glass or organic seal it is warranted for 20 years. And they will provide a factory-authorized repair at no cost.


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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Researcher

That is not Andersen's written warranty on glass or seals, not even close. Where's the rest of it?


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 Post subject: Re: Reply
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:11 am
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[quote="FenEx"]Researcher

That is not Andersen's written warranty on glass or seals, not even close. Where's the rest of it?[/quote]

FenEx

You are right about that there is more written in the glass & seal warranty but what i posted is in there. Post the whole thing if you have it.

Richard

This was posted...."100% vinyl window won't expand and contract in the heat and cold." Is this close?


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 Post subject: Re: Reply
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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researcher wrote:
This was posted...."100% vinyl window won't expand and contract in the heat and cold." Is this close?


No, not very close. :) All building materials expand and contract with temperature changes, including vinyl/wood/fiberglass/glass/aluminum, etc. They don't all change at the same rate, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Reply
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 79
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[quote="eberry"][quote="researcher"]This was posted...."100% vinyl window won't expand and contract in the heat and cold." Is this close?[/quote]

No, not very close. :) All building materials expand and contract with temperature changes, including vinyl/wood/fiberglass/glass/aluminum, etc. They don't all change at the same rate, though.[/quote]

Exactly, and of all the materials you mentioned,
vinyl/wood/fiberglass/glass/aluminum, vinyl is the one that expands and contracts the most do to temperature changes by quite a margin.

researcher


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:21 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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I need to see something that verifiys that a hardened industrial product like vinyl is going to contract and expand more than wood, which is soft. I know my wood windows stick in summer, because they swell, but I've never seen a vinyl, as in not full of reprocessed garbage, but actually vinyl, window do that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:59 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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Many vinyl designs are advanced enough that they can expand some and still not stick. Here is a reference or two on the expansion rates, in case it helps. Based on the location of the web pages, you can probably see the bias and ignore the absolute differences, though the relative ones should hold true for many cases. Pretty much every vinyl siding installation, for example, needs expansion gaps hidden in the trim (though these material peices are much longer, on average).

http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=64
http://www.fiberglasswindows.com/benefits.htm
http://www.austinwholesaledecking.com/ezdeck/

Some modern vinyl is reinforced enough that it can prevent excessive expansion. From what I've heard from an old-time installer, expansion was a much bigger issue many years ago when vinyl window material and design were less advanced.

I don't know of specific studies or references on virgin versus non-virgin vinyl comparisons, so I won't speak to that. I've heard salespeople claim their virgin vinyl expands less, though.


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