Anderson vs. Champion vs. Larmco

[ALPRO]

Vapor barrier on the outside of the structure in a cold climate? That is interesting, and ultimately not recommended. Does Champion put a vapor barrier on the inside of the building as well or do they let all the moisture migrate outside? If the foam is as airtight as it is touted, how to you get the moisture through the product and out of the home?

What kind of foam is this fan fold made of? 3.9 per 3/8ths of an inch out of a foam product that is typically around R-5 per inch. Are you telling me that the foil barrier adds that much R value? Does foil work more efficiently when it is not in direct contact with the substrate you are trying to insulate? All of the installation guidelines for the radiant barriers that I have ever seen do not place it in direct contact with the heat source they are trying to block. In this case, you are trying to reflect the heat back indoors but are really creating a heat sink effect that is broken by the 3/8 inch foam.

Moisture migration happens in every structure. Tyvek is a code required vapor barrier with no insulating qualities that is applied after the dry-in stage of most new construction. A vapor barrier is not "vapor proof" or "airtite" as you say, it must allow for controlled migration or where you are headed with your thinking is the end result.....it isn't a plastic bubble, it's a vapor barrier with insulating properties among several other benefits.
If you are in D.C. I know that there was a campaign years back where the Public Utility comission would take a thermal image of you home to show you what you needed to do to improve the efficiency, so,.if you think along those lines, you will determine the feature and benefit without me promoting it.

If you would like a sample of the product, I am sure that any Division manager would be happy to show you one or even show you a scale mock up of an install or even give the consentual addresses of consumers that have chosen this aplication for thier needs. Since I am accused of promoting on here,..I'm gonna just let what I have stated stand, but,.. keep in mind that efficiency keeps greenhouse gasses out of the atmosphere, just as using recycled vinyl keeps it out of landfills, so,..maybe you could just swing in and check it for yourself if you happen by a factory showroom.

I currently have one project where the homeowners specifically chose the product I represent for 2 reaasons in this order..
1. Insulating value
2. Warranty
3 Company reputation (he already lost 7k to contractors running off with his deposits for other projects)
4. Price
5. The right product for the application. (Needed insulation, wanted maintenance free exterior)
it is a 110 year old cedar shake stick framed 2 story that the wind blew thru the walls on the weather facing side. The homeowner is a serious do-it-yourselfer in so far that he has even re-roofed his rubber roof, so I wouldn't classify him as ignorant in the building trades and I certainly would not attempt to misrepresent a product to him as he knows what is what and wherefor. The job will be finished mid-week, and they have agreed to tell me how it suits thier neeeds,..good ,bad, or indifferent, so, if that piques your interest I guess we can find some way to satisfy your curiosity that won't get me banned from this board for promoting.

[Windows on Washington]

Moisture migration happens in every structure. Tyvek is a code required vapor barrier with no insulating qualities that is applied after the dry-in stage of most new construction.

I know that you are likely no longer on the board but after you say something as uninformed as the above quoted statement, you should not be taken seriously in any capacity. If you don't know the difference between Tyvek and a vapor barrier/retarder, you should not be debating anything exterior construction and holding yourself out as an expert.

[yolflen]

I just got Larmco windows. Not a great fan of the sales pitch but I wanted those windows. They are Soft-lite windows. I also got the "we had production problems". But I figured if I got a better price then, whatever. When they show you the window, they say it is "exactly the same" but it is not. If you remembr what the original window looked like, then I think that is the soft-lite Elements window. The other window seems like a hybrid Barrington/Imperial LS window. I originally agreed to that one but when I looked online later realized my mistake. I did end up with the window I wanted. They did use fiberglass to insulate. I apparently missed the posts about fiberglass vs. foam. My walls are colder than the windows. But I figured I needed to start my upgrades somewhere. I went with Larmco because I wanted the warranty. If did get a qoute from a place called Northcoast Energy Masters ( I think I am remembering corrrectly) which had the Soft-lite Barrington and Imperial LS windows. They had a 1-2 yr labor warranty. They were much cheaper, so depending on your area and your needs ( I really wanted a longer warranty or I would have choosen them) then you might want to get (another) quote from them.

[Skydawggy]

What I've learned about Champion so far is that they will tell the customer whatever sounds good to make the sale. I don't know whether that's true or not, but that's what it sounds like.

[M.A.Pace]

What I've learned about Champion so far is that they will tell the customer whatever sounds good to make the sale. I don't know whether that's true or not, but that's what it sounds like.

That was exactly my one and only experience with a Champion "sales representative" on the phone. She wasted no time showing off her truly remarkable combination of bullshit and ignorance about their own (or their competitors') products. I know they advertise on TV a lot, but I can't believe they have so many prospects they can really afford to lose most of them right off the bat, with such no-class tactics.

[championboston]

champion's vinyl replacement windows are not 2000.00 they arent 1500.00
they retail for 1190.00 for a double hung with comfort 365 glass, we give a life warranty on everything you call us and we don't give you the around,and we have deep discounts up to 40% off in if you buy today, and offer lines of credit.look us up on the bbb we stand behind our products,because we build,we install,we stand behind.people love to try to lie about our company if you can't beat us join us and we all don't need to be so mean to one a another there more than enough to go around you don't see athlete acting this we all work hard so lets be Business Professionals and sell yourself and your product.try to be nice.i hope everyone knows there is no need to blame and own it.



jj

[TommyJ]

champion's vinyl replacement windows are not 2000.00 they arent 1500.00
they retail for 1190.00 for a double hung with comfort 365 glass, we give a life warranty on everything you call us and we don't give you the around,and we have deep discounts up to 40% off in if you buy today, and offer lines of credit.look us up on the bbb we stand behind our products,because we build,we install,we stand behind.people love to try to lie about our company if you can't beat us join us and we all don't need to be so mean to one a another there more than enough to go around you don't see athlete acting this we all work hard so lets be Business Professionals and sell yourself and your product.try to be nice.i hope everyone knows there is no need to blame and own it.



jj

WoWee!!

What a deal!!!

$1190 for an average vinyl double hung and you can get it for the bargain price of $715? Sign me up today.

What is the point of a "Buy Today" discount. Don't you want consumers to research their products prior to making a decision and does it even matter if they look at other products if your window is any good?

[VRWAdmin]

one a another there more than enough to go around you don't see athlete acting this we all work hard so lets be Business Professionals and sell yourself and your product.try to be nice.i hope everyone knows there is no need to blame and own it.

If your going to violate the board rules, at least try using coherent sentences that we have a chance at understanding.

Is this indicative of all the people who champion Champion?

Ed's.

[Skydawggy]

I was under the impression that Atrium made the Champion Window. I'm not sure but my guess would be that Champion is a marketing scheme run by Atrium. Anyone have any additional information or is my guess correct?

http://www.atriumrestructuring.com/pdflib/22_10150.pdf


So for the meantime, Champion can be considered in bankruptcy until this is all finished.

[TommyJ]

I was under the impression that Atrium made the Champion Window. I'm not sure but my guess would be that Champion is a marketing scheme run by Atrium. Anyone have any additional information or is my guess correct?

http://www.atriumrestructuring.com/pdflib/22_10150.pdf


So for the meantime, Champion can be considered in bankruptcy until this is all finished.

Hard to believe that they could be bankrupt charging $1190 a window.

They must me more top heavy than Dolly Parton from an organizational structure.

[shamu]

The Champion we are most familiar with is not owned by Atrium. Atrium owns a similarly named company based in Texas which manufacturers primarily aluminum windows. They do make a vinyl SH window also. There are 3 listings for companies with the Champion name listed on the NFRC site.

[Skydawggy]

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know who makes the Champion Window? They have no presence in this area that I am aware of so, I've never seen the window.

[shamu]

They manufacture their own windows. 2 facilities, Cincinnati, OH, and Colorado. I am not sure if they extrude their own vinyl or if it is even their own design which may be extruded for them by another company. Maybe one of their salespeople who seem to pop in occasionally can share some information.