Certainteed vs Milgard

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SirZoltan
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:04 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Certainteed vs Milgard

#1 Post by SirZoltan » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:17 am

Hello window folks,

I've been doing some research and pretty much narrowed down my choices to Full line Certainteed or Classic style Milgard. I'm looking at replacement style windows with a stucco fin [z-bar].

Any suggestions one way or the other? Any new suggestions in this price range in my market area [Albuquerque, NM]?

Also, one salesman was telling me that Argon will deteriorate the seal on the window. Is this true or was there some other reason for the seal failure?

I plan on installing these myself.

Thanks in advance,
Chad

Ronin148
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:04 am

#2 Post by Ronin148 » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:57 am

Strange, I'v narrowed down to these exact two as well.

I decided to order a combination of both: I like the stainless tape system in the Certainteed vs Milgard's nylon cord as far as the double-hung goes. Milgard's lock systems seems to be fool-proof for the operator but Certainteed's cam-lock system feels beefier. I like the Z-bar style on the Milgard better. At first glance, quality and price they are both really close.

Argon is a inert/noble gas, it is non-reactive. Can't think of a way on how it'd cause seal failure.

Ten-thumbs
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#3 Post by Ten-thumbs » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:42 pm

My windows w/Argon are 11 years old---no seal problems !

joe123
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#4 Post by joe123 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:05 am

I am in the same boat.

The deciding Factore for us was that fact that Milgard Classic window frames are NOT symmetrical on the outside. It looks like this [Oo] One hole bigger than the other. Very ugly in my opinion.

So we are leaning toward the CertainTeed Somerton line up.

Joe
Last edited by joe123 on Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bill
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#5 Post by Bill » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:18 am

Argon does not have a negative effect on the longevity of the glass seal. It may dissipate over time from many spacer systems but this will not cause a visible failure of the glass.

Bill
Uneeda Window of N.J.

joe123
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#6 Post by joe123 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:13 am

Is there a way to test to see if the Argon gas is indeed inside?

When I say test, I mean without breaking the warranty.

squeege
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Location: Salem, OR

#7 Post by squeege » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:47 pm

Milgard uses a intercept spacer system that uses screws to fill the air/argon holes. One screw in the intercept spacer means an air fill. Two screws on opposing corners means an argon fill. I've never seen a way to tell if a sealed unit has argon, maybe one of the other guys on the board can help with that one.

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Window4U (IL)
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Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#8 Post by Window4U (IL) » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:03 pm

Yes, there is a tester called GasGlass. It works great.....but costs 10 grand.

http://www.sparklike.com/Pages/products ... ndheld.htm

If you can find a home inspector that has bought one(good luck), employing his services would be the most economical way to go.

mman
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Location: Portland, OR

#9 Post by mman » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:48 pm

As far as Milgard not being symetrical..are you sure you were looking at the Classic. The Classic 'does' have even sight lines, the Styleline does NOT. The windows you were shown may have been misrepresented by a poorly trained rep. Both are good companies, so compare the warranties online if you are still in the buying decision. Also (broken record) argon has nothing to do with seal failure, and if the argon is gone from a window, the performance is virtually the same. You will never see, smell, taste a difference in you windows or your energy bill if the argon is there or not. Low E is really the big change with the glass and the unit, other than super spacer over most metal spacers. Don't forget to ask for SUNCOAT MAX when shopping for you next window. (shameless self-promotion)

joe123
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#10 Post by joe123 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:40 am

mman wrote:As far as Milgard not being symetrical..are you sure you were looking at the Classic. The Classic 'does' have even sight lines, the Styleline does NOT. )

Hi Milgard Man.

Yes. I know the differences between Milgard Classic and Milgard StyleLine.

Milgard StyleLine series have non-even sight lines as far as the window glass area is concerned. Which looks ugly too. Same thing for Simonton low frame windows.

Milgard Classic have even sight lines for the glass, HOWEVER, the outside FRAME is NOT symmetrical. It is uneven. Here is a picture of that:
http://www.homeglass.com/process.htm

Now, let me repeat, Milgard windows are very well built and I have nothing against them only that the just look UGLY.

I placed an order for 21 Milgard windows and was lucky to be able to cancel on time. I wished someone here would have pointed this out, the FRAME not having even sight lines on the outside and it would have saved me a lot of headaches.



joe123
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#11 Post by joe123 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:59 am

Look at the middle section of the link and look how one side is bigger than the other.

mman
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Location: Portland, OR

#12 Post by mman » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:31 pm

Guess it is all in your viewpoint, but I think that the picture is taken at an angle and gives the impression that the window has uneven sightlines. If you look at any Classic head on, the glass is exaclty the same size. Not to be argumentative or make excuses, it is just in a body's perception. We all have our likes and dislikes, and very little out there will change your mind.

joe123
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:13 pm

#13 Post by joe123 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:40 pm

mman wrote:Guess it is all in your viewpoint, but I think that the picture is taken at an angle and gives the impression that the window has uneven sightlines. If you look at any Classic head on, the glass is exaclty the same size. Not to be argumentative or make excuses, it is just in a body's perception. We all have our likes and dislikes, and very little out there will change your mind.

You are correct in that the glass in the windows have even sight lines.

However, when you put the screen on the window that opens, the glass sight line begins to be harder to see and what you end up with is that the eye now focuses on the FRAME of the window. The more you step back from the window, the more you will notice that UN-even window frame.

This is true whether you look at the window straight on, or from any side. One side will look BIGGER than the other.

InfoSponge
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#14 Post by InfoSponge » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:54 pm

mman wrote:...if the argon is gone from a window, the performance is virtually the same. You will never see, smell, taste a difference in you windows or your energy bill if the argon is there or not. Low E is really the big change with the glass and the unit, other than super spacer over most metal spacers.
I agree with you that for many people LowE is a better investment than Argon, but to say that Argon has no visible difference on energy efficiency is stretching things.

Changing from a metallic Intercept spacer to something like SuperSpacer gives you about a .02 lower u-factor (granted the difference is much larger starting from an old aluminum spacer). Changing to argon from air lowers the u-factor by around .04, and only increases the cost of manufacturing the IGU by a few dollars. If the manufacturer doesn't charge too much for the Argon (often is is "standard"), it can be a good investment for a homeowner, especially with a IGU seal that will keep the argon in for a longer period (20+ years).

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