Hello all, and thanks for participating in such an informative website.
I like to believe that I am a good customer -- I am looking for a high quality window, installed well, and am not going to quibble over the money. I believe people should be well compensated for a job well done.
That being said, I had a gentleman come and give me a sales pitch for the 21 (old, casement, single pane aluminum) windows I am looking to replace in my home (8 47x84, 9 47x58, 3 35x34, 1 24x45, all double-hung with grids). He was selling Atrium Applause windows.
He started by saying that there was some rebate in the state of California that would save us 35% but that we would have to sign immediately because only one home per "area" was eligible. (Let me preface this by saying the guy had come to the house a month before and given part of the pitch but we needed to cut him short -- I actually called HIM back to come back to the house and I guess in the interim month noone had signed up). AND AND AND we have to put a sign in front of our house for a month (I am sure that our super-snobby neighborhood will rejoice over this)!
He quoted me over $26K for the job. Now, I have no problem spending this kind of money if these are the best windows BUT I got one more quote, with Polybau windows, for about $14K. What confuses me is that the $26K quote is 35% off -- it is really a $40K quote once you consider the "discount". This seems to be a huge difference for what, in my admittedly naive view, are similar products.
I signed a cancellable contract, and canceled it once I got the second lower quote because I felt I had been "had". They were like "OK, whatever, verbal cancel is fine".
Feedback, anyone? I am so curious as to what people think about this situation. Maybe he was "reading" me (for example, I am a notorious overtipper) and he figured I was a sucker.
For $26K, can I just buy the guy who posts from Buffalo a first class ticket to California, put him up at the Ritz, and have him do the work?
Thanks, all!
The Hard Sell: Am I just a fool? (Atrium windows)
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bubbleville
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:49 pm
- Location: San Francisco CA
lol..for 26K, I'd be glad to do it, especially since I jave family in San Fran and could save you money on the hotel, but for 14K, I'd get the polybau's. 26 for 21 windows is straight BS!!! And those aren't THAT big of a window. I got 23,800 LIST for the ones I sell, and my pitch would have included a straight volume discount, for 21 windows of 30%, which is 16,660, give or take. And that's the high end window.
That one house per area thing is garbage too. That is a bold faced lie, I guarrentee. No body has "special programs" like that.
The Polybaus are supposed to be a fine window. I don't much about atriums.
That one house per area thing is garbage too. That is a bold faced lie, I guarrentee. No body has "special programs" like that.
The Polybaus are supposed to be a fine window. I don't much about atriums.
Don't buy from anyone who offers any of the following:
A discount to be a "model home"
A discount if you put a sign in the yard
A discount for taking "excess inventory" off their hands
A discount to be featured in a "mailer" that will be sent around the area
A discount for "referrals" that you will give me in the future -- paid in advance. (I saw that one in the movie Tin Men).
A discount that is only availablie to the first 10, 15, 100 or whatever number that signs up.
These scams are used by guys who are still living in the 1960's. They can't sell themselves or their products on their own merits -- so they have to manufacture some false sense of urgency. Rather than charge a fair markup on the masses they look to make their month on one big hit. Congratulations bubbleville for seeing through it. I would mail, or fax the cancellation form in rather than relying on a verbal. Otherwise they might try to strong arm you with the old "we ordered the windows already and the factory has already cut the glass" scam. Followed by another massive discount. (Let me know if they do it....lol)
A discount to be a "model home"
A discount if you put a sign in the yard
A discount for taking "excess inventory" off their hands
A discount to be featured in a "mailer" that will be sent around the area
A discount for "referrals" that you will give me in the future -- paid in advance. (I saw that one in the movie Tin Men).
A discount that is only availablie to the first 10, 15, 100 or whatever number that signs up.
These scams are used by guys who are still living in the 1960's. They can't sell themselves or their products on their own merits -- so they have to manufacture some false sense of urgency. Rather than charge a fair markup on the masses they look to make their month on one big hit. Congratulations bubbleville for seeing through it. I would mail, or fax the cancellation form in rather than relying on a verbal. Otherwise they might try to strong arm you with the old "we ordered the windows already and the factory has already cut the glass" scam. Followed by another massive discount. (Let me know if they do it....lol)
bubbleville,
You did very good cancelling your contract. I have not seen a Polybau but no one speaks bad of them.
Windoze,
We have a model home program for builders, sponsered by one manufacturer. It will also apply to the builder/developers home at 3 per year total for us to apply for. 10% it is.
We are just starting to use yard signs and I feel the customer deserves compensation for advertising. The other discounts and even others you did not mention may be absolutely ludicris, but please keep in mind that some of us really do give discounts that have a real value and not a pencil majic show. I have even come up with a few that the customer never sees or hears if I feel it is justified. Like the single parent discount for someone working two jobs, and other humanitarian things. If my margin is met then why not?
You did very good cancelling your contract. I have not seen a Polybau but no one speaks bad of them.
Windoze,
We have a model home program for builders, sponsered by one manufacturer. It will also apply to the builder/developers home at 3 per year total for us to apply for. 10% it is.
We are just starting to use yard signs and I feel the customer deserves compensation for advertising. The other discounts and even others you did not mention may be absolutely ludicris, but please keep in mind that some of us really do give discounts that have a real value and not a pencil majic show. I have even come up with a few that the customer never sees or hears if I feel it is justified. Like the single parent discount for someone working two jobs, and other humanitarian things. If my margin is met then why not?
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handyman19619
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Especially when you make them keep the sign up for a year or two and if they dont threaten to revoke their discount. It does happen in this industry. Very shady and I am not sure but possibly not legal.
I do pay for referals
I would love to go to san fran I can do the job for $8000 to 12,550
plus air fare for 5 if you want it done in one day. You can choose from almost any manufacturer that delivers to your area (simonton im sure is there) The only problem is liscensing, insurance, workers comp and tools Along with tickets to Disney Land.
Seriously you can do better than 26,000 Even better tha 16,000
Keep looking you lived with them this long. You already know what the pitch is when they are trying to rip you off from your last estimator.
When you get someone that comes in shows you their product gives you a price and offers no gimmicks. Doesnt back down from their price(take it or leave it) You can be sure (after checking references of course) that you are getting what you need for a fair price.
Good Luck
I do pay for referals
I would love to go to san fran I can do the job for $8000 to 12,550
plus air fare for 5 if you want it done in one day. You can choose from almost any manufacturer that delivers to your area (simonton im sure is there) The only problem is liscensing, insurance, workers comp and tools Along with tickets to Disney Land.
Seriously you can do better than 26,000 Even better tha 16,000
Keep looking you lived with them this long. You already know what the pitch is when they are trying to rip you off from your last estimator.
When you get someone that comes in shows you their product gives you a price and offers no gimmicks. Doesnt back down from their price(take it or leave it) You can be sure (after checking references of course) that you are getting what you need for a fair price.
Good Luck
Paying a referral spiff is one thing...we do that too.
Saying "I know you are going to give me referrals, and to show you how confident I am about it I'm going to pay you in advance for the first 5 right now -- and take $500 off your job price" is something totally different.
If something seems too good to be true it usually is.
Saying "I know you are going to give me referrals, and to show you how confident I am about it I'm going to pay you in advance for the first 5 right now -- and take $500 off your job price" is something totally different.
If something seems too good to be true it usually is.
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thermotwinwindows
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:18 am
- Location: Oakmont, PA
- Contact:
YES SALES PITCH
Yes indeed these are sales pitches. Every salesman has a bottom number they won't go below, and it's far down from their companies list price. They can say all kinds of things to make you believe this is a once in a lifetime offer (fishing). Cold hard facts, they will come down to certain point no matter what the special or rebate, their like the house at a casino, they never loose. Figure out how low is there absolute low price. Please tell them I want that price and I'm not putting your stupid sign up in front of my house. Trust me, you can still get the deal. They are sales driven as is any company in t his business. If you have definately figured out what features you NEED, not want. I would continue to shop until you reach a price & window you can live with. If you like the windows and are comfortable with higher pricing, tell them to cut the bull, give me your absolute best deal or I'll go to somebody else. Then hire a professional remodeler, very inportant professional remodeler with plenty of window experience and an escellent reputation with windows. Have him either oversee the installation or do it with his crew. There are people dying to get your business with the kind of money you have mentioned.
Unless you see papers with a government (state or fed) logo, phone number and letter explaining why you can receive a special. don't believe the hype. Contact me if you have anymore questions. I'll explain to you in great detail what they are pulling. You're actually being smart, you know this sounds funny. It would sound funny to me also.
Just to explain my position. I am not on here to sell anybody our windows, this customer is not even in our service area at all. I am just giving advice. So before anyone attacks what I say, this is my advice to this gentleman. If you don't like what I've told him. Argue your point with him not me, I know the business he doesn't. Just tell the truth. This is my answer to the original question and I did not read any other person's reply, if this was already covered, I am sorry for repeating what has already been said.
Unless you see papers with a government (state or fed) logo, phone number and letter explaining why you can receive a special. don't believe the hype. Contact me if you have anymore questions. I'll explain to you in great detail what they are pulling. You're actually being smart, you know this sounds funny. It would sound funny to me also.
Just to explain my position. I am not on here to sell anybody our windows, this customer is not even in our service area at all. I am just giving advice. So before anyone attacks what I say, this is my advice to this gentleman. If you don't like what I've told him. Argue your point with him not me, I know the business he doesn't. Just tell the truth. This is my answer to the original question and I did not read any other person's reply, if this was already covered, I am sorry for repeating what has already been said.
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Bob Savage
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:01 pm
Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I'm in South Orange County, and need three sliders and a window done. Would you (or any window contractors in my area) please contact me at junk at bobsavage dot net (sorry for the phonetic, I'm trying to avoid spam bots...)? I've gotten a couple quotes for windows, and so far, they're very high based on what I'm reading here and a few other sites.RVEXLER wrote:A reasonable install rate, including the cost of the window and labor would be at the $500 per window. So, 21 windows should run around $10,500. That's what our typicall install runs in socal using Milgard Classic Vinyl windows.
Thanks,
Bob
800-399-4623