Alside Excalibur

[Windows on Washington]

U-Factor is purely the measurement of resistance to heat flow through the window and its associated components. This measurement is done by exposing the window to a fixed temperature on one side and measuring the transference of energy through the window with thermocouples. This has nothing to do with air infiltration and is done in a stagnant (wind free) testing scenario.

To question as to why the government does not take these things into account is the million dollar, although obvious, question. The government, while the effort is commendable, should not have set the standard on U-Factor and SHGC across the country for that matter either. Their low SHGC numbers for Northern regions are not the best choices for most customers either, however, no customer wants to leave the $1500 on the table.

[Christopher]

Thank you for all your help!
I went to the Alside tech site. Where can I go to find out the cfm/min for Gorrell, Sunrise, etc.?
I need to know what to buy!

[Windows on Washington]

Best bet is to contact the specific manufacturer and get the test data from them.

The Gorell is around a 0.10 if I am not mistaken and the Sunrise Vanguard is a 0.04 I think.

[OrielsSteve]

I'm a little confused by some of these numbers. Why does Okna measure air infiltration in terms of "cam/ft2" (that's foot squared, I don't know how to do super script on here) and Alside uses cfm/ft2? I think cfm means cubic feet per minute, but what is the Okna unit?

It seems a little fishy to me that one company would use a different unit of measure and still declare that their number is better because it is lower. I don't know if it is better or not, just seems fishy. Especially in a measurement that is not regulated like U-Factors are by the NFRC. Everyone seems to throw around the numbers while ignoring the unit of measure. Is 1 gallon smaller than 3 cups? The unit is pretty important.

The test conditions also seem to be important. Alside lists 25 MPH wind. At what wind speed is the Okna measurement? Why don't they put that on their site?

Is this more marketing tricks like the fake foam Okna put in the windows or is it real? How can someone tell? Also, it seems that Alside lists actual test data on their Techcenter site while Okna does not? Does this mean they are being less than honest again?

I know there are a lot of people on here who make their living selling Okna so I don't mean to sound too accusatory, it's just so hard to find real information. It would be helpful to see actual printed test data rather than statements from someone with a vested financial interest in promoting a product. Where can someone find information like that? I would appreciate any insight.

[Windows on Washington]

I'm a little confused by some of these numbers. Why does Okna measure air infiltration in terms of "cam/ft2" (that's foot squared, I don't know how to do super script on here) and Alside uses cfm/ft2? I think cfm means cubic feet per minute, but what is the Okna unit?

That is a website typo. I don't think that English is the first language of their website designer. The unit of measure is cfm/ft2 @ 25mph

It seems a little fishy to me that one company would use a different unit of measure and still declare that their number is better because it is lower. I don't know if it is better or not, just seems fishy. Especially in a measurement that is not regulated like U-Factors are by the NFRC. Everyone seems to throw around the numbers while ignoring the unit of measure. Is 1 gallon smaller than 3 cups? The unit is pretty important.

See response above.

The test conditions also seem to be important. Alside lists 25 MPH wind. At what wind speed is the Okna measurement? Why don't they put that on their site?

25 mph. That is the ASTM specification for that test. I don't suspect that they need to seeing as the data is the result of a standard ASTM test that is now the benchmark for air infiltration evaluation.

Is this more marketing tricks like the fake foam Okna put in the windows or is it real? How can someone tell? Also, it seems that Alside lists actual test data on their Techcenter site while Okna does not? Does this mean they are being less than honest again?

See Above.

I know there are a lot of people on here who make their living selling Okna so I don't mean to sound too accusatory, it's just so hard to find real information. It would be helpful to see actual printed test data rather than statements from someone with a vested financial interest in promoting a product. Where can someone find information like that? I would appreciate any insight.

You don't sound too accusatory...more like someone that sells a different brand of window.

See attachments for the actual test data.

[OrielsSteve]

Thanks for the quick answer. You guys don't mess around.

I did a little quick looking around online. Do you know why the NFRC says the measurements should only go to one decimal place (e.g. 0.1 instead of 0.02)?

Also, it looks like they tested a new construction window. Could one expect to get the same results with a replacement window?

I do appreciate the info. You learn something new everyday!

[Windows on Washington]

Properly installed, an insert window will perform just as well as a new construction window.

Good job on your research and you will be the better for it.

[phils]

What would be a better window than the excalibur at the same price point?

[OhioCW]

You will want to look up structural data to see air performance numbers. They actually list their window at a 0.21 cf/min at 25 mph.

Wow, that's even worse than what I posted. I used info off a dealer's website not Alside's. I must have found some incorrrect info.

Comment:
When I looked at the website to check the numbers, the 0.21cfm/ft2 is not at 25 mph but at 25 dp (psf) (there is a conversion calculator to switch the dp(psf) to MPH and it converts to 98.8 mph).
Not sure how that compares to others but believe this is more correct now.

[Windows on Washington]

All air numbers are tested at 25mph. Alside would not test their window at nearly 100mph because ever double hung I have ever seen would exceed maximums at that point.

[phils]

Now I am confussed; however, I may have to lower my price per window to 350 to 450 installed. Is there a better window then the Excalibur in my price range?

[Windows on Washington]

Depends where you are located but I am going to guess the answer is yes.

It is not secret that the installers on this board are not fans of the Excalibur. There is no clandestine motivator behind that sentiment. We are pretty comfortable knowing what windows we would choose in that entry level category and that is usually not one of them.

Simonton makes a 5050 that has very slim lines and is a sturdier product than the Excalibur.

What else is available in your region? At the upper end of your spectrum ($450 installed) there are quite a few windows that fall into that range.

[phils]

What window brands fall into the $450 installed price range?

[Windows on Washington]

Windows are very regional so it depends on where you are in the world. I am sure that the Simonton 5050 is available in your area as is the 5300.

[Nicku315]

How do you compare Alside Excalibur against Gorell 5300, OKNA 800, Simonton 5050, Ultrashield Windows and American Jewel 1700 ?