Good Product/Bad Install

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need windows
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Good Product/Bad Install

#1 Post by need windows »

From all of the web pages that I have been on over the past month, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the complaints I see on the internet are based upon poor installation of a product, lousy sales tactics (maybe) or poor customer service after the sales and not always the window itself.
After looking at several window lines and reading the NFRC ratings on these windows, it appears the Champion windows and the Soft-Lite Imperial lines are very similar. I did look at Serious windows, but they are pretty serious about them. :D
I am looking for a foam filled frame to help with the "R-Value". I understand more importantly the MAGIC numbers the Government says I must have to qualify for the credit.
Price is about the same for both, although with the games Champion does play they are now cheaper than the Imperial Soft-Lite windows. I am looking at sliders and casements to replace original aluminum double hung single pane windows on a house built in 1978.
It was a little cold in Oklahoma this morning at 19 degrees and with single pane windows it was cold inside near the windows as well.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

Big difference between Champion and Soft-Lite...one of them leaks air, the other does not.

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#3 Post by need windows »

And you would recommend?

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

Soft-Lite

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#5 Post by need windows »

Well, that was my assumption. But I had to ask. Thanks!
On the NFRC site I can find all of the magic numbers on all kinds of CPD#'s, but I can not find the Air Leakage numbers. Am I missing that somewhere on that site? It seems that after the U-Factor and SHGC, that is an important number.
Air Leakage, less on casement than the sliders? Double hung or single hung better than sliders?

buddy110
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#6 Post by buddy110 »

Windows on Washington wrote:Big difference between Champion and Soft-Lite...one of them leaks air, the other does not.

And it's not the Softlite :mrgreen:

OP, there are no AI numbers on the NFRC site. :(

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#7 Post by need windows »

Hmmm! :cry:
Well then, how does one acquire this important info?

TLHWINDOW

Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#8 Post by TLHWINDOW »

need windows wrote:Well, that was my assumption. But I had to ask. Thanks!
On the NFRC site I can find all of the magic numbers on all kinds of CPD#'s, but I can not find the Air Leakage numbers. Am I missing that somewhere on that site? It seems that after the U-Factor and SHGC, that is an important number.
Air Leakage, less on casement than the sliders? Double hung or single hung better than sliders?

Air Leakage is usually lesson Casements and Picture windows. I have found that it is actually less on DH windows than on Single hungs for most of my windows.

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#9 Post by need windows »

So according to that, my best bet energy wise is mainly double hungs, casements & a picture window which will replace 2 single hung windows.
While sliders will save me money, they are not as energy efficient as the others. In reality all are tons better than my current single pane aluminum windows.

JScott
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#10 Post by JScott »

You are correct.

The Imperial LS is a step above the Imperials.

The air leakage on a softlite LS DH is 0.02, Champion is a 0.18

The air leakage on an andersen 300 series casement is 0.03 while most wood casements are <0.01 or 0.01.

Ask for a copy of the AIA test reports from the manufacturer to verify. Water follows air so the more air tightness the less water penetration.

Most sliders leak more air than double hungs. Generally casements are the best but as I indicated above with the air leaking andersens, look at the AIA test reports. If the company will not provide these then YES, they are trying to hide something.

The nfrc site is for units with glass packs, U values, the aama site is for DP ratings, etc...but most do not indicate the AL. You see, the majic to selling sub-standard windows is to not inform the consumer, only confuse them.

Consumer reports tested windows, like 14 or 15 of the 1720+ or - available, but, they did indicate that they tested the windows then installed them and after several weeks re-tested them. NONE, NONE, NONE of the vinyl products had the same results as the laboratory test reports. They all were less on the performance, so, buy the most air tight units initially as the AL will increase over time and we have complaints from customers after 5-6 years that there windows leak more air than what they replaced, but with aluminum anything is an improvement.

PS, the complaints are not from windows we installed. We are just called in as the initial seller won't do anything. NO window manufacture warranty covers air leakage.

:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:

But...as you said, anything would be better than what you have and with this you are correct.

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#11 Post by need windows »

So in reality if my budget can swing it I should go with Casements if I want to keep out that air for years to come. Currently my pricing is about 488.00 each for the double hung Imperial LS series for 18 windows. I will now get a cost on Casements in the Soft-Lite Imperial LS line. I am sure I can do better and worse for Oklahoma, but so far it appears top be a good price. If not, someone let me know.

Skydawggy
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#12 Post by Skydawggy »

If you have a Colonial style house and want to keep the same aesthetics, you might want to take a look at Simontons Colonial Casement. It's a Casement Window designed to look like a double hung.

http://www.simonton.com/Products/_Produ ... i=323&wbs=

Can be ordered with or without grids and the full range of options available on all Simonton Reflections 5500 and Impressions 9800 windows.

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#13 Post by need windows »

Is this very similar in cost to the Imperial LS series? There are a few distrubutors here for the Simonton window I see.

copykatpro
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#14 Post by copykatpro »

Have you thought about choosing the style of window based on aesthetics? If you choose a good window manufacturer, the air infiltration will likely be good regardless of the style. I have casements, double hungs, sliders and picture windows in my house and I really haven't noticed much of a difference. And remember, even though casements are great, they aren't always a good idea in places with high outdoor traffic.

need windows
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Re: Good Product/Bad Install

#15 Post by need windows »

I will just stay with the Double hungs at this point, since the Casements added 2,000.00 to the estimate. :(

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