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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:12 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:25 am
Posts: 155
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Gorell's own energy savings calculator suggests average savings of 24% if you fill out the energy savings calculator form in the image linked here:
http://www.gorell.com/pages/buying_windows.htm

This alone makes it hard to believe Gorell has a fuel savings pledge that promises anything over 20% savings, especially since that average is probably a little inflated (as most marketing stuff is).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:28 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Suburbs west of Boston
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The energy guarantees I saw when looking at windows generally had several limitations:

1) There is a $500 limit to the refund, regardless of your heating bill.

2) You have to replace *every* window in the house that is in a heated area, with their most expensive window.

3) There are "adjustments": you have to subtract out other utilities, account for "abnormal" weather conditions, etc. Nowhere does it say how you make this calculation.

4) You have to do a big pile of paperwork a year after your windows are put in.


Condition 2 strikes me as the most restrictive, because if you've done any renovations on your house you've probably replaced a window or two already, and you aren't going to pay $500+ per window to replace a perfectly good window in order to possibly save a maximum of $500. It also isn't clear what is considered a window, for example are the highlights next to my front door considered a window? What about the window in the door? What about sliders?

So I just ignored these energy guarantees and didn't factor them into my decision at all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
Posts: 243
Location: WISCONSIN
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I personally don't like to see window companies (Gorell in this case) making post on sites like this. They are biased and obviously have their own agenda. I mean would'nt you if you were a mfrg. I also have a lot of trouble with companies that have a fuel savings pledge. This is a sales gimmick and if you read the fine print and do all of the calculations necessary to get some sort of refund (which they know you won't) it is just another ploy for your business. I guess in there defense I;ll add it's not as outrageous as some other fuel savings pledges, promises or what ever they want to call it that I've seen. Shoot me if I'm wrong but I think this board tries to provide honest opinions from professionals around the country who give freely of their time to help educate and assist Mr & Mrs homeowner make a more informed decision when purchasing windows.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:04 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Atlanta, Ga
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It would be impossible to work in the window business on a daily basis without preference, or bias, based on each person's experience.

Seems to me that is exactly why consumers come here..to get the benefit of the professionals experience (preferences) without wasting time on more estimates or just learning thru experience.

Take from it what you will but it seems kinda silly to complain about it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1329
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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Fail to understand it?
You can't understand being an installer, replacing 3 year old junk windows, then forming an opinion that the brand is junk?

Everything that happens in a human being's life biases his opinion. You like Pepsi because Coke fizzes in your mouth too much. You like Ford because your old Chevy kept breaking down. You like steak but hate duck because it has an aftertaste.
Negative biases lead to a person's preferences.

Why is it so hard to understand that the window pro's opinions would be formed by their personal experiences, and not just by the "facts"? After all, there are really no window "facts" for you to research, except the limited NFRC data, and that tells you almost nothing about the quality and longevity of a window.
Whether any product is good or not relies almost completely on a population's individual experiences with it. (and a really good advertising agency)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:22 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
Posts: 243
Location: WISCONSIN
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Gee whiz you guys, must have been a slow day. researcher my comments were directed at mfrg's that don't belong here. In as far as normal bias from experiences ....... I think most pro's are able to convey their information objectively.......and one more time isn't anybody excited about Andersens supplying lumber yards with a Renewal knock off! I thought by now at least four or five Renewal experts would have had a comment........OK I'm a troublemaker, but having had to listen to their arrogant garbage about how bad vinyl windows are, I thought it was refreshing that their king has been reduced to an everyday garden variety lumber yard window. Can't wait to see it at Menards.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
Posts: 243
Location: WISCONSIN
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Perhaps you can give us some examples. We don't want Mr & Mrs Homowner to get the wrong idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
Posts: 243
Location: WISCONSIN
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I see your point, and you are correct on a number of things. My background is sales, marketing and installation of vinyl and wood replacement windows. I even worked in a vinyl factory for a month to get more insight from there perspective. When making a comment on a post I do so only if I have had experiences relating to their post. We all have some bias as do I, but I share my opinions based on facts and really don't push anyones agenda (mfrg wise). So you'll never point a finger at me. There are a few who probably in your opinion are a bit tainted, but as you stated it's easy to spot. In as far as who makes $$$ from this site it's the moderators....bunch of pretty smart guys who sell leads....good for them....they beat me to it. I've learned a lot visiting this site on a daily basis, and the wealth of free info is available no where else. Thanks to people like oberon (this guy must be a rocket scientist) window4u (just a very savy guy whose been there and is willing to share it) fenex (kinda like oberon but I can almost understand most of his info) and others like guy etc etc etc


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