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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:48 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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9 out of 10 would also say 0.17 is not a very good AI#.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:05 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:43 pm
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Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY
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toddinmn wrote:
9 out of 10 would also say 0.17 is not a very good AI#.


We've beaten the AI thing to death. It's a very small part of the total equation, certainly not something I would base my entire decision on. The 5100 is a solid window made by a top company. I have virtually no service issues with Gorell products. I can't say that about other brands which I have carried in the past


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:39 am 
maybe because the 9 out of 10 people asked are on this board, and they dont want you to use ideal as it is very easily accessed thru a local contractor...Ideal makes a window with a low u-value and a great ai #, it comes with foam filling, welds similiar to Simonton (inverted on the sashes) and composite reinforced sash, nice sash bevels, this window is not available to the average contractor, but is made by ideal. i will say that ideal does make some garbage windows that most contractors use, but to say a company as a whole does not make a good window is not fair to the consumer trying to get help from this board. Gorell 5100 line with the .30 u value and a .17 ai # with the warm edge spacer would never be considered a top pick if the average contractor could pick it up at home depot or a like store.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:02 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: Northern,Virginia
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That's not true at all. Simonton is usually recommended and it can be purchased by any contractor or consumer from a local building supply house. The Simonton has a .30 U-factor and an AI around .12.

I suspect you are upset because we don't recommend your favorite window. I have no experience with Ideal and I refrain from recommending any window based on someone elses recommendation who doesn't have any history of credibility with me. Perhaps what you say is true and their upper lines are good windows. The fact that we recommend certain brands doesn't mean those are the only good ones. It just means we aren't familiar with certain manufacturers or that the experience we have from those companies hasn't been very good. I constantly tell consumers that there are local brands that are pretty good and then advise them as to what to look for and what questions to ask.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:19 pm
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Was just on the Ideal website and was looking at the warrenty:

4. If the inspection substantiates a claim that a component has failed due to a manufacturing defect and that it is still covered under warranty, a replacement part will be shipped to an Ideal distributor closest to your home at no charge except freight or shipping fees (FOB Bayonne, NJ). The consumer is obligated for installation fees and arrangements. If the inspection reveals the problem is related to faulty installation or adjustment, a service charge may be imposed.

MATERIAL COVERED BY THE TERMS OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY WILL BE PROVIDED AT NO CHARGE AND
DELIVERED TO THE DEALER OR DISTRIBUTOR CLOSEST TO YOUR HOME. ANY DELIVERY CHARGE OR LABOR
SERVICE CHARGES BILLED BY THE DISTRIBUTOR ARE NOT COVERED BY THIS WARRANTY.

The caps are not mine btw. Is this a pretty standard warranty? Basically, if a bunch of my Ideal windows start to screw up in 2 years, they will send the parts to someone, who I then have to pay to fix the window? Plus I have to pay the shipping? I hope this is not for all windows.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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One of the pros of dealing with an authorized dealer of a particular window manufacturer that has a stellar reputation, would be a written labor and service warranty. If some parts were to break within a certain time period they simply would be covered. I'm talking about the whole service call too, not just the parts. Not all dealers have their contracts structured that way. It does sound like a very compressive warranty is very important to you so I would ask the various window dealers and contractors how they would handle things in the future if something breaks, or you feel something wasn't done correctly with the installation.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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+1 to DM. There are not many manufacturers that cover labor on the replacement parts, and the ones that do only cover it for a short period. You'll want to find an installer that offers a strong workmanship warranty including service calls if that is a major concern for you.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:19 pm
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A strong warranty is important to me, but I feel some of the salesmen aren't always 100% honest when it comes to what is covered. I'll start asking for the warranty well in advance of any contract being signed.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:33 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:59 pm
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the best warranty is a good window with a good install. everything else is just a piece of paper.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:43 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
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Location: Northern,Virginia
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ranger wrote:
the best warranty is a good window with a good install. everything else is just a piece of paper.

+1. Couldn't agree more. Many warrantys are just feel good security blankets for consumers. Some I have read disclaim so much that the window would literally have to explode and injure someone before the warranty would cover anything. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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EcoStar Windows wrote:
ranger wrote:
the best warranty is a good window with a good install. everything else is just a piece of paper.

+1. Couldn't agree more. Many warrantys are just feel good security blankets for consumers. Some I have read disclaim so much that the window would literally have to explode and injure someone before the warranty would cover anything. :lol:

... but many are far more than that. Personally I stand behind our work 100%, to the point that I will fix any issues as long as the HO owns the home at no charge. I used to just go out and fix these issues whether it was "technically" warrantied or not, and then the :idea: went off in my head that I may as well market it. :D .... Some companies are like me, others have a ton of crazy disclaimers as you've described. I would definitely recommend that consumers review the "actual" warranty prior to being sold on it.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
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Location: Northern,Virginia
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I think Okna settled the suit and offered compensation to those consumers they decieved.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
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Location: Northern,Virginia
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You raise a good point. OTOH, I don't think Xact is a very good window either. What other brands are you familiar with?


Last edited by Skydawggy on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Maybe I'm cynical, but I dont know if there are ANY manfacturers that don't regularly walk the borderline of deception.


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 Post subject: Re: What brand of windows should I definitely AVOID?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: Northern,Virginia
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I don't want to start up with Okna again because I feel thay have taken the necessary steps to assure what they did to decieve consumer won't happen again. However, I do think there is a difference between walking a thin line such as Energy Savings claims and flat out deception. To me it would be the equivalent of failing to use loE glass or failing to fill the IG with argon gas. On one hand it could very well have been a disgruntled employee. On the other hand it could have been directed by management. We will probably never know the truth. Perhaps other manufacturers do the same and have just not been caught. Even so, Okna very much soiled their reputation and it will be years before they fully recover the industry's and consumers trust.


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