Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

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rmcarner
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#16 Post by rmcarner » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:44 pm

HomeSealed wrote:Ya... like I said, you are in a hard spot. If you can post a pic of the reveals, you can probably get some feedback on whether it should fly or not... You really wouldn't get any binding either way. What you will get, is copious amounts of air leakage at the meeting rail, possibly the sill, and possibly where the sashes seal to the side jambs... Even though you are flipping the house, I get the feeling that you are not a schyster by the fact that you went out of your way to find a decent window instead of buying crap off the shelf at the big box... That being said, if you were the person purchasing this home with your wife and kids with "brand new Simonton windows", what would you expect of the seller?... Not trying to lecture you or anything like that, just something to think about. Ultimately, the decision is yours, and at this point, you are the only one that sees the level of severity of the situation.
I'll ponder this a bit more and report back. Your right about one thing: I'm way over budget on this B/F/F because I was averse to taking short cuts.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#17 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:38 pm

Wellllll, one could argue that installing the windows yourself was a shortcut-- especially considering that it is the source of your problem here-- but again, I'm not here to lecture or scold you. I tried flipping some years ago and found that the only way to make really good money at it is by taking advantage of others (by essentially polishing a turd: using sub-par products, labor, etc., and then finding crooked home inspectors and naive buyers). Needless to say, I've moved on.

rmcarner
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#18 Post by rmcarner » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:22 am

rmcarner wrote:
HomeSealed wrote:Ya... like I said, you are in a hard spot. If you can post a pic of the reveals, you can probably get some feedback on whether it should fly or not... You really wouldn't get any binding either way. What you will get, is copious amounts of air leakage at the meeting rail, possibly the sill, and possibly where the sashes seal to the side jambs... Even though you are flipping the house, I get the feeling that you are not a schyster by the fact that you went out of your way to find a decent window instead of buying crap off the shelf at the big box... That being said, if you were the person purchasing this home with your wife and kids with "brand new Simonton windows", what would you expect of the seller?... Not trying to lecture you or anything like that, just something to think about. Ultimately, the decision is yours, and at this point, you are the only one that sees the level of severity of the situation.
I'll ponder this a bit more and report back. Your right about one thing: I'm way over budget on this B/F/F because I was averse to taking short cuts.
Well, I have to be honest: I didn't sleep very well last night. Contemplating breaking PSI caulk seals and removing wood casement that had been installed on the outside of these windows 17 feet in the air was not a good thing. I just took a Starrett 6" ruler and marked with a magic marker where the beginning of the bottom window casement emerges from the bottom of the frame. I then measured the inside distance from the top the frame to the inside base where the length of the window casement theoretically should rest when the window is closed. That frame inside height is 7/8". That's a given with all the frames. On 3 windows, one side was 1/8" short of touching the bottom of the window frame. On one other window, I was 1/16" short of reaching the bottom. All the rest of the windows seem to be touching the bottom of the inside of the frame. Visually, the ones that are 1/8" out of square are obvious if you stare at them. Yesterday, I assumed that the discrepancy was worse than it actually is. Having said that, do I need to be concerned about the 1/8" differential? Sorry. wasn't able to post images. At least not yet. Thanks for all the help I am getting.

shamu
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#19 Post by shamu » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:03 pm

Does the top sash close evenly into the head pocket? If so, the bottom sash may have been manufactured out of square. You can measure it diagonally to check it for square. If the bottom sash is making contact against the sill(where the bulb seal or Q-Lon contacts the sill) across the complete width of the window I would not worry about 1/16" - 1/8".

rmcarner
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#20 Post by rmcarner » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:09 pm

Winodow 1 IMG_3726 [640x480].jpg
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shamu wrote:Does the top sash close evenly into the head pocket? If so, the bottom sash may have been manufactured out of square.
No. I'm afraid this is my fault. If the bottom sash is slightly 'up' on the, the top sash will be seen as slightly up on the right. The problem as I see it is that the opening was not square and I simply did not have enough wiggle room to wedge up the bottom of the frame in order to bring it into square.
You can measure it diagonally to check it for square. If the bottom sash is making contact against the sill(where the bulb seal or Q-Lon contacts the sill) across the complete width of the window I would not worry about 1/16" - 1/8".
This is reassuring. What you call the bulb seal appears to be in contact with the sill across the complete width. It must have been engineered in such as way as to allow for the problems that I am experiencing. Beside that, the top sash and the bottom sash on 3 of the worst installations still bury themselves a full 3/4" into the head pocket.

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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#21 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:29 pm

Run your hand across the meeting rails (where the upper and lower sashes meet and the locks are). Does this feel even from one side to another? If so, maybe the bulb seal is taking up some of the slop. If not, you have problems.

rmcarner
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#22 Post by rmcarner » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:34 pm

HomeSealed wrote:Run your hand across the meeting rails (where the upper and lower sashes meet and the locks are). Does this feel even from one side to another? If so, maybe the bulb seal is taking up some of the slop. If not, you have problems.
I'll do that with all 13 windows tomorrow and report my findings. I gather from what you are saying that this test is done while the upper and lower sashes are in the locked position? If where they meet it feels relatively flat then I should be okay? Thanks.

rmcarner
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Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#23 Post by rmcarner » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:51 pm

Window sill bulb IMG_3735 [800x600].jpg
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rmcarner wrote:
HomeSealed wrote:Run your hand across the meeting rails (where the upper and lower sashes meet and the locks are). Does this feel even from one side to another? If so, maybe the bulb seal is taking up some of the slop. If not, you have problems.
I'll do that with all 13 windows tomorrow and report my findings. I gather from what you are saying that this test is done while the upper and lower sashes are in the locked position? If where they meet it feels relatively flat then I should be okay? Thanks.
Here's an update. I check all 13 windows. The bulb seal must be taking up the slack and saving my A. The upper and lower sashes feel pretty even. Maybe a couple are higher a 16th or so on one end. Attached is an image of the only sash where it is evident that the bulb seal is not in full contact with the frame. Hope the image shows what I'm talking about.

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