Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

For all those Replacement Window questions
Message
Author
rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#1 Post by rmcarner » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:30 pm

Hi,
I bought this house in a short sale for @35K. I've done a complete gut and will be lucky to break even at the rate I'm going based on what the market will bear in this neighborhood. I'm looking at a middle level vinyl replacement. I need 13 windows. My local Alside has a line called the '09L1' line or around $117 per including climatech. They have another line called 'Geneva' for around $176 per window. I'm trying to figure out what to do. I'm not shy about spending money where I should. I don't want to short change whoever buys the house if the windows are going to end up giving the person trouble in a couple of years. On the other hand, I now have to be real careful how I budget the remainder of my bridge loan. Thanks for any suggestions.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#2 Post by Windows on Washington » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:49 pm

Check into one of the local building supply houses and see what they can do for you on a Simonton 5050.

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#3 Post by HomeSealed » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:55 pm

Windows on Washington wrote:Check into one of the local building supply houses and see what they can do for you on a Simonton 5050.
+1. There are also supply houses that sell PlyGem, Gorell, and Softlite models that may fit your price range. Any would be superior to the Alside imo.

rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#4 Post by rmcarner » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:58 am

HomeSealed wrote:
Windows on Washington wrote:Check into one of the local building supply houses and see what they can do for you on a Simonton 5050.
+1. There are also supply houses that sell PlyGem, Gorell, and Softlite models that may fit your price range. Any would be superior to the Alside imo.
Okay. I'll hold off placing an order until I price these other models. Thanks.
Update: A local building supply place has the Simonton 50 for $155 per. That is to say: anything under 100" (length + width) would be $155 per. This sounds like a pretty good deal. I'm gonna go over and check out the window first before jumping in. The bottom line: Geneva by Alside 13 windows comes to $2410. Simonton 50 comes to $2136.

The Telescopist

User avatar
Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#5 Post by Window4U (IL) » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:37 am

IMO the Simonton is by far the better window. My 2¢.

rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#6 Post by rmcarner » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:57 pm

Window4U (IL) wrote:IMO the Simonton is by far the better window. My 2¢.
After checking out the Simonton 50, I went ahead and ordered 13 windows. I glad that is over with. It was a relief to make a decision.

TheWindowNerd
Posts: 1698
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#7 Post by TheWindowNerd » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:20 pm

I agree that the Simonton was a better choice.

rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#8 Post by rmcarner » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:35 am

anthony wrote:I agree that the Simonton was a better choice.
Any particular brand of caulk you would recommend? Say something I can pick up at a box store? Or, are there some specialized mastics that window suppliers and installers prefer?

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#9 Post by Windows on Washington » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:34 am

I think the hybrids are a good choice.

If you are going with white on white, Silicon is a great option if you do not require paintability.

If it needs to be paintable, most installers go with OSI Quad.

rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#10 Post by rmcarner » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:24 am

anthony wrote:I agree that the Simonton was a better choice.
I installed the Simonton 50-50s. I like the window. One problem I ran into is that on some of the windows the bottom sash does not go down into the frame parallel or equal distant on both sides. The windows are pretty level vertical and horizontal so I am at a loss why this is happening. The sash opens and closes with ease and doesn't act like it is in a bind. With what little space is left over in the opening, I have tried different things like shimming the bottom of one side of the window frame thinking that the window might be racked a bit. But nothing seems to work. You have to point out the discrepancy (or unevenness) at the bottom of the sash where it disappears into the frame before anyone really notices it. The good news is that the window engages and locks with the upper sash. So maybe I am making a big deal out of nothing?

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#11 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:18 pm

RM, unfortunately, that is a big deal. It is possible (although highly unlikely) that the window unit or some part of it is made "out of square", however, it is far more unlikely that it is due to your installation.... To install: the only time you need the level is on the sill. After that, those very "reveals" that you are asking about will show you whether the window is square or not. I'd take out the fasteners, level the sill, and then shim the side jambs so that those reveals (where the sash goes into the frame) are perfect on both the upper and lower sash, and you have a nice seal on the sides of the sash to the frame. Then install the fasteners, insulate, etc..... If you do this, the locks,etc should work like butter, and everything will seal properly. If you don't, the window will leak air like a sieve and probably never function quite right. In addition, a good home inspector will flag it as a diy "hack job" (no offense), and could possibly jeopardize your deal.

rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#12 Post by rmcarner » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:27 pm

HomeSealed wrote:RM, unfortunately, that is a big deal. It is possible (although highly unlikely) that the window unit or some part of it is made "out of square", however, it is far more unlikely that it is due to your installation.... To install: the only time you need the level is on the sill. After that, those very "reveals" that you are asking about will show you whether the window is square or not. I'd take out the fasteners, level the sill, and then shim the side jambs so that those reveals (where the sash goes into the frame) are perfect on both the upper and lower sash, and you have a nice seal on the sides of the sash to the frame. Then install the fasteners, insulate, etc..... If you do this, the locks,etc should work like butter, and everything will seal properly. If you don't, the window will leak air like a sieve and probably never function quite right. In addition, a good home inspector will flag it as a diy "hack job" (no offense), and could possibly jeopardize your deal.
Sigh... Well, it is going to take quite a bit of work to undue what I have done. But, I'll give it a try since I think your advice is sound. When I tried to level the sill I just wasn't achieving much in the way of a change in the level. Maybe I didn't allow for enough wiggle room side to side when I measured. Another possibility is that the opening wasn't square. This is a real old building. Example: I have 3 windows side to side in one bedroom. The openings are all different - not by much but enough that I had to record separate measurements for all of them.

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#13 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:20 pm

rmcarner wrote:
Sigh... Well, it is going to take quite a bit of work to undue what I have done. But, I'll give it a try since I think your advice is sound. When I tried to level the sill I just wasn't achieving much in the way of a change in the level. Maybe I didn't allow for enough wiggle room side to side when I measured. Another possibility is that the opening wasn't square. This is a real old building. Example: I have 3 windows side to side in one bedroom. The openings are all different - not by much but enough that I had to record separate measurements for all of them.
I'd say it is highly likely that the openings are out of square; most homes are. Personally, I usually cut-back 3/8" on the width and 1/2" on the height (from the smallest point of the opening) on my measurements. This allows the necessary room to get the window square in the opening, and typically will leave a nice little space to fill with low-expansion foam.... If you measured exact, you likely won't have enough wiggle room to get them square. That's a tough spot... There are ways of dealing with this depending on the circumstances (type of window, home, etc). On many windows, the utility grove sticks out past the the actual frame by about 1/4". Cutting this off will gain you some space (but beware it could also jeopardize the warranty). The other option is to get out the chisel and work on the opening. It is not difficult to take 1/4" out of a sloped sill.... BTW, I am not recommending any of these tactics, just providing you some options that you might consider-- at your own risk. :mrgreen:

rmcarner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:55 am

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#14 Post by rmcarner » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:27 pm

HomeSealed wrote:
rmcarner wrote:
Sigh... Well, it is going to take quite a bit of work to undue what I have done. But, I'll give it a try since I think your advice is sound. When I tried to level the sill I just wasn't achieving much in the way of a change in the level. Maybe I didn't allow for enough wiggle room side to side when I measured. Another possibility is that the opening wasn't square. This is a real old building. Example: I have 3 windows side to side in one bedroom. The openings are all different - not by much but enough that I had to record separate measurements for all of them.
I'd say it is highly likely that the openings are out of square; most homes are. Personally, I usually cut-back 3/8" on the width and 1/2" on the height (from the smallest point of the opening) on my measurements. This allows the necessary room to get the window square in the opening, and typically will leave a nice little space to fill with low-expansion foam.... If you measured exact, you likely won't have enough wiggle room to get them square. That's a tough spot... There are ways of dealing with this depending on the circumstances (type of window, home, etc). On many windows, the utility grove sticks out past the the actual frame by about 1/4". Cutting this off will gain you some space (but beware it could also jeopardize the warranty). The other option is to get out the chisel and work on the opening. It is not difficult to take 1/4" out of a sloped sill.... BTW, I am not recommending any of these tactics, just providing you some options that you might consider-- at your own risk. :mrgreen:
Thanks. I understand why you would not be recommending any of these options... I'm feeling really stuck. The windows close, lock, and run freely (don't feel like they are in a bind. I believe that I simply did not allow for enough leeway to shim one way or the other in order to ensure that the sash look even at the top and bottom. I installed 13 windows. 3 of them are pretty obvious to the discerning eye. The rest are okay. I have sealed them in with a PSI caulk. They ain't moving....

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Contact:

Re: Alside and Buy/Fix/Flip

#15 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:06 pm

Ya... like I said, you are in a hard spot. If you can post a pic of the reveals, you can probably get some feedback on whether it should fly or not... You really wouldn't get any binding either way. What you will get, is copious amounts of air leakage at the meeting rail, possibly the sill, and possibly where the sashes seal to the side jambs... Even though you are flipping the house, I get the feeling that you are not a schyster by the fact that you went out of your way to find a decent window instead of buying crap off the shelf at the big box... That being said, if you were the person purchasing this home with your wife and kids with "brand new Simonton windows", what would you expect of the seller?... Not trying to lecture you or anything like that, just something to think about. Ultimately, the decision is yours, and at this point, you are the only one that sees the level of severity of the situation.

Post Reply