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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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Anthony, Thanks

I got the estimate from the Sunrise dealer who also sells Simonton, used to be his big brand for many years.

Sunrise: 6250
Simonton Prism: 6100.

So he is about 1100 to 1900 higher on Simonton Prism/5500.

I have no basis to compare the Sunrise estimate b/c it is hard to find other dealers in my area. I have seen the guys work, it is good but his estimate.

And even though I asked via email, did not include grids or upgraded glass, either an oversight or I will have to pay more for these options. The only frustration I have with Sunrise is finding dealers who are also good to compare pricing especially because his pricing on Simonton compared to other is 20 to 33% higher. I know install matters but....

Finally, I called Sunrise and they would only refer me to a regional rep. My view is just give me the names of companies in the area, and let me call would have been preferrable. It should not be a secret who sell ones product. They act like the Gorell folks who referred me to someone on the other side of the water, not even close to me, showing me that they do not know the area at all. That is the difficulty I have with these smaller companies: who sells their product seems to be secret for some reason. It is rather odd.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:36 am 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Which Sunrise window?


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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He did not say. Will find out.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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WoW, installer just stated that it was the sunrise series not the essentials and did include the contoured grids and upgraded glass package the price.

So to summarize, all with turn-key install (repair rot, wrap, haul-away, etc.), all with contoured grids and full screens for 10 DH 32x62 and 1 Fixed 60x54, white on white:

Installer A: $6250, Sunrise, with ultra plus 12 glass.
$6100, Simonton Prism Platinum, LoE366, with DS glass and super spacer.

Installer B: $4825, Simonton 5500 with LoE366, with DS glass and super spacer.

Installer C: $4850, Simonton Prism Platinum with std LoE glass, std spacer.

Installer D: $5000, Simonton 5500 with std LoE glass, std spacer.

Installer E: $4500, Simonton 5500 with std glass, std spacer. Does Gorrell and Wincore now, no estimate though.

Installer F: $4500 Sienna and/or $ 5000.00 Timeline, installer very good person, but not windows based on this board and research.

Installer G: Bfrich - $ 5250 Cabernet with Px6 package

Waiting on two more Simonton Prism Platinum/5500 w/LoE366 estimates and then I think I am done and will make choice.

I want to give special thanks to Bill from NJ for alerting me to the Simonton packaging with LoE366 which upgrades spacer and glass and for the folks who alerted me on Sienna and Timeline. I know the feeling on Bfrich, dislike them after seeing installed, and will not use.

Part of me says Sunrise, although would like another estimate to see if pricing is good b/c his pricing is high on Simonton at least compared to others. Part of me says Simonton, ease of matching down the road for back of house, number of distributors, and price of course about 20% less for a pretty good window.

(As a side note, Sunrise, Gorell and some other these niche sellers like Okna would be well served to list sellers/distributors on websites instead of their current method of call backs, it is not logical and a big turnoff).

VBhomeowner


Last edited by vbhomeowner on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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That's a lot of quotes. Is there a prize for 2nd place? Box of chocolates maybe.......


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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vbhomeowner wrote:
WoW, installer just stated that it was the sunrise series not the essentials and did include the contoured grids and upgraded glass package the price.

So to summarize, all with turn-key install (repair rot, wrap, haul-away, etc.), all with contoured grids and full screens for 10 DH 32x62 and 1 Fixed 60x54, white on white:

Installer A: $6250, Sunrise, with ultra plus 12 glass.
$6100, Simonton Prism Platinum, LoE366, with DS glass and super spacer.

Installer B: $4825, Simonton 5500 with LoE366, with DS glass and super spacer.

Installer C: $4850, Simonton Prism Platinum with std LoE glass, std spacer.

Installer D: $5000, Simonton 5500 with std LoE glass, std spacer.

Installer E: $4500, Simonton 5500 with std glass, std spacer. Does Gorrell and Wincore now, no estimate though.

Installer F: $4500 Sienna and/or $ 5000.00 Timeline, installer very good person, but not windows based on this board and research.

Installer G: Bfrich - $ 5250 Cabernet with Px6 package

Waiting on two more Simonton Prism Platinum/5500 w/LoE366 estimates and then I think I am done and will make choice.

I want to give special thanks to Bill from NJ for alerting me to the Simonton packaging with LoE366 which upgrades spacer and glass and for the folks who alerted me on Sienna and Timeline. I know the feeling on Bfrich, dislike them after seeing installed, and will not use.

Part of me says Sunrise, although would like another estimate to see if pricing is good b/c his pricing is high on Simonton at least compared to others. Part of me says Simonton, ease of matching down the road for back of house, number of distributors, and price of course about 20% less for a pretty good window.

(As a side note, Sunrise, Gorell and some other these niche sellers like Okna would be well served to list sellers/distributors on websites instead of their current method of call backs, it is not logical and a big turnoff).

VBhomeowner

I'd just like to respond to the last statement by saying that these brands are not "niche" choices, but premium choices. It would be like calling Mercedes a "niche" product just because they are not as widely available as Fords. After having received so many quotes, I'm sure that you have seen how cut-throat this industry is. The premium options available are only available to the best of the best dealers because of this, so that they may protect their exclusivity. Anything that is very widely available is no better than decent. I would characterize the Sunrise option as a premium choice, while the Simonton is probably the best of the options that anybody can get, along with plygem. I'd personally pay the small premium.... And in the interest of full-disclosure, I do not sell Sunrise. In fact, that product is sold by my largest and most successful competitor, fwiw.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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Delaware Mike - it is a lot of quotes because many early quotes did so without actually quoting what I asked for, the LoE366 glass package and a detailed estimate, even though I gave them a email or piece of paper with requested options down to color of trim wrap. I cannot imagine a Toyota or any other car dealer giving me a quote on a car without providing options I requested or allowing me to compare prices with other dealers.

Homesealed - without getting into an economic/marketing discussion of what constitutes premium versus niche, no adverse statement was intended in the use of the adjective to you as a "premium dealer" And I do not care what you sell, as you live quite far from me in a city that I have never been to so my only point was companies might want to allow reasonably easy access to who actually sells their product IN MY AREA, it should not be a secret. For example, when I emailed Gorell, they sent me to someone 40 miles away on the other side of the water even though I later learned closer dealers were here locally on this side of the water.

And after 3 phones to Sunrise, one where my phone number was given to the receptionist for the regional sale rep, I still have no listing of local dealers. I suppose you would agree that Anderson, Marvin, and many other products are niche (you would use the term premium) wood or fiberglass products. Go to their website, put in your zip code, and you get a listing of distributors/sellers who can refer you to creditable installers. This is rational customer service. Indeed, Mercedes or BMW does not hide where its dealerships are located as I recall, even though they fill a premium-niche in the marketplace.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:16 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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Homesealed - Your motto from your business website" "A Window Line for Every Budget" This does not sound premium or niche or exclusive to me, as you ostensibly sell to all segments of the marketplace.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:04 am 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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vbhomeowner wrote:
Homesealed - Your motto from your business website" "A Window Line for Every Budget" This does not sound premium or niche or exclusive to me, as you ostensibly sell to all segments of the marketplace.

Apparently I've touched a nerve?... The reason that I mentioned what I do/do not sell is merely to illustrate that I have no vested interest in my recommendation on this topic. Without getting into the nuts and bolts of how the window industry works, let me try to rephrase my explanation.... Companies that make premium products but do not spend enormous amounts of money marketing their products depend on their dealer network to build and maintain their reputation for quality. When someone contacts them directly, they send that info to one of the dealers that they know will deliver superior service. I don't know the exact reason why they don't simply publish the list of their dealers, but I'd imagine it has something to do with the fact that it would be difficult to keep that list current, as companies are added and dropped regularly. It also gives them the ability as I said previously, to insure superior service. Unfortunately in your situation this was not the case.
Your comparison to Marvin, etc would be inaccurate, as wood windows are a different animal. There are very few wood products that are exclusive. Anyone can walk into a supply house and buy Marvin, Andersen, etc. That is also why it is so easy for them to list their dealers on their websites, because they are mostly large supply houses, lumber yards etc.
On my website, I guess I don't see the correlation to what you are saying. The fact that I have different choices to fit the needs/budget of my clients really has no bearing on my ability to offer premium and or "niche" products. You've insinuated that I characterize myself as a "niche" dealer, and that would be inaccurate, as all of the top dealers in any market operate along similar lines (selling one or more exclusive products). I would however consider myself a premium dealer, due to our dedication to quality through use of the industry best practices, as well as the fact that the majority of our sales are "premium" products. Again, the fact that we also have choices to fit the needs of our more budget-minded clients does not change that.
I do apologize if you've found any of my comments offensive. I'm simply offering my opinion based on my experience and knowledge in the industry. You are certainly free to disagree.
Best of luck on your project. :)


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:35 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:28 pm
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I would also add that some dealers sell a higher percentage of certain products than they do of others. So if you call XYZ window manufacturer, they are likely going to give out the name of one of their more active dealers as opposed to one who only occasionally sells their product.

In addition, many manufacturers do have dealers of exclusive lines they make. It's very possible there could only be one dealer of that product within an area.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:10 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
Posts: 26
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Homesealed - I do not think we are in disagreement at all and I took no offense whatsoever. I merely used the term niche for the term premium for which I meant the same thing. So we really do agree. Many thanks.

Eco - Agreed totally, but this is the issue with going with Sunrise or one of the other 3 premium windows (Gorell, Softlite and Okna) mentioned on this site. In a smaller replacement market as opposed to DC, it is very difficult. Many thanks.

Delaware Mike - saw that Kcascade got 14 estimates with many different brands, so I am still way behind Kcascade. About 1/2 to 3/4 of mine are already out of the running and most were done just with email giving specs and a job I could review, so it is really down to 2 to 3 installers. The reason for the estimates is not so much price but to choose based on quality of installation and wrap as the deciding factor. And the only way I can judge that is to review their work at another location. Most of my neighbor are replacing their old wood with RNA, Anderson clad, Pella clad, Marvin clad, Marvin fiberglass or Simonton vinyl or unknown vinyl. I have seen good and bad finish work in all levels of windows. Plus I want to ensure no chaulking occurs and I have seen this on replacements vinyl w/brick, so that is why Simonton or better in brand type is my choice. Hope this explains why so many estimates and detailed research on brands and installers, I do not like it either to tell you the truth, it is a real big pain and very time-consuming. I wish I could have said: here do my windows and stopped with the first person or second person. Too many times though I have been burned by misplaced trust in others on other home projects. Many thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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I was just adding a little levity to the painstaking process of finding the right contractor. :D

I'm sure that your will make the right decision in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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Delware Mike - who knows, I certainly hope that I choose the right one. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:36 am
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Eco, Bill, WoW, Homesealed or Delaware Mike,

Thanks for all your advice. I have settled on the Simonton, in part because the readily availabe nature of them in my area. Lots of folks in my neighborhood have replaced with Simonton, if they did not use RNA, Pella or Marvin. Simonton may not be the best but it is probably good enough.

Sunrise is a great window, but only has one seller in the area, and the rep is over 200 miles away. Never could find Okna, Gorrell or Softlite sellers locally.

My question is what is the upcharge for Decorum colors. The window will be Simonton Prism/5500 with LoE366, DS glass, Contoured Grids, Full Screens, Wrap, Etc.

Thanks. VBhomeowner.


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 Post subject: Re: competent window installer in vabeach
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:40 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 429
Location: New Jersey
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Are you interested in a painted exterior or interior wood grain ?


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