Abcleads.com BBB Business Review  NAHB member
Call us at
1-800-219-5332


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:03 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 840
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
Offline
The Verde comes with Cardinal's XL Edge stainless steel spacer, which is very good and totally acceptable, IMO. Foam filling is included as well.

The only problem I had when I was choosing between the Vanguard and the Verde is the lack of reinforcement. The Verde had less than the Vanguard and you couldn't add it as an option. Perhaps that has changed in the past year and a half though. If you can add reinforcement, I certainly would.

Even without the reinforcement, I would probably choose it over the Gorell, but they are close, so you might let it come down to the installation details and your preference of one window over the other.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:27 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Offline
Thanks for clarifying that (option content) randy, I'd agree with that assessment. :D


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:50 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
Posts: 14
Offline
Thanks for the reply's. I don't think reinforcement is an option at this time since I questioned the absence and the seller didn't offer an upgrade. He did say that he could get the Vanguard but at a 10-15% premium. Won't know about that until I get his est. for the Verde.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
Posts: 14
Offline
I noticed that the Verde doesn't have an interlock between the upper and lower sash when closed, although it did seem to have a full width/thicker pile. Is the interlock something that makes a window "better". The Gorell and Vista had this feature.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 650
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
Offline
I wouldn't worry about the lack of a interlock system on the Sunrise double-hung as when the engineers where designing this window they had built several test models. Some had a sash interlock system, and some did not. Sunrise found no performance benefits of the window with the interlock, thus decided to go a different direction than most of the vinyl industry. I've find in my experience that a low grade lose tolerance window with an interlock can leak a ton of air around the sash meeting rail. The Sunrise design seems to be one of the tightest windows tolerance wise and their sashes seem to seal especially tight at it's meeting rails.

I asked this very same question out to the Sunrise plant back in 2005 when I was touring the assembly line. The response came directly from the owner. Could be well rehearsed "hog wash" or the simple truth. After installing thousands of their DH products I can tell you that from an air leakage point, it's one the tightest units out there.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
Posts: 14
Offline
Thanks, DM. The Verde is beginning to look real good.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Offline
I have also installed hundreds if not thousands of that product, and while I do believe that it is an upper tier performer, the lack of interlock is a detriment, not a benefit. If it was a positive design feature, other manufacturers would follow suit (this is a "copy cat" industry at the end of the day). As a matter of fact, I put the Sunrise casement in the top 2 or 3 vinyl windows, but the Dh's are a distant 3rd at best after Softlite and Okna.
Great product when installed properly, but it is also the least "installer friendly" of the 3 IMO... Please don't think that you are looking at a "bad product " by any means, just had to give my $.02 on that design feature. :wink:


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:05 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 840
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
Offline
I have to agree with HomeSealed. The lack of a sash interlock is a negative for me, however, I wouldn't let it be the deciding factor when choosing between windows. Sunrise makes a very nice product and has achieved a very good AI rating without an interlock.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:09 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 650
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
Offline
Sunrise DH's can can be fussy for installers to install due to their "slimline" profile, especially wider units. No argument there. In most circumstances I'll default my recommendations to a OKNA 800dx, Soft-Lite LS, or AWI Energex series. All of these units feature a composite meeting rail reinforcement insert standard. Sunrise would have this on my Vanguard series.

My best guess on why Sunrise went away from the interlock system is two part. First would be the narrow profile of the sashes that Sunrise was trying to maximize glass preservation. Secondly, I think back in the late 90's when this design was on the drawling board just about all vinyl windows were very bulky and ugly. The extrusions didn't have as much engineering to the "I beam" internal walls for added strength, plus looser manufacturing tolerances. I've seen really cheap windows like this have the interlocks ride over each other and not allow the locks to even engage at all, thus creating a service call nightmare for dealers. This typically wouldn't happen initially as the installer would catch this right away. I would see this after some heating and cooling cycles especially when the window was left unlocked all of the time.

I've never had a problem with an interlock system from Soft-Lite, OKNA, Vista, Simonton, or Affinity. Better windows, less problems. Every window is also subject to personal preferences and each individual's circumstances and unique installation. When I see a homeowner that hates the general bulky look of vinyl and has average or really small windows, I'll present a window like the Sunrise Vanguard or OKNA 500/400 series. On a really tight budget it may even be a Soft-Lite Bainbridge or Pro.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Offline
I can't really disagree with any of that :D ... My speculation is that it was done to avoid the issues that lower end products have with their interlocks including upper sash drift, but as you mentioned , a well engineered and put together product rarely sees those issues.
...and just to reiterate, Sunrise is a very nice product. To put it in perspective for consumers, the differences that we are talking about are the difference between a BMW, a Lexus, and a Mercedes for the most part.


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:18 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 331
Offline
With the Sunrise being the Mercedes?


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:39 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Offline
toddinmn wrote:
With the Sunrise being the Mercedes?

Ha! ... actually I'd say the Lexus. :lol:


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:21 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 650
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
Offline
What stings us dealers is the fact that the Sunrise products are priced more like a Bentley. :(


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Offline
Delaware Mike wrote:
What stings us dealers is the fact that the Sunrise products are priced more like a Bentley. :(

Very true! :lol:


Top
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:08 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 331
Offline
Not hurting dealers who sell other brands, I'd prefer to bid against a Sunrise only dealer. I think it hurts Sunrise and the customer more.

I had a lot of problems with the last Benz I had and hold Lexus to a higher standard within the same class. It was a Sprinter though and rebadged as Freightliner.


Top
 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group