Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

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tluke
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Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#1 Post by tluke »

Hi All - First of all, thanks for providing this invaluable resource. I have learned a ton!

I am embarking on a large (39 windows) replacement project in the suburbs of Chicago. My windows are a combination of casements (22''x72", 22"x60" and 22"x48") and some larger picture windows.

I've read quite a few posts on reinforcement, and have learned that reinforcement is recommended in wider double hung windows, but haven't seen if reinforcement is recommended for casements and picture windows.

I have received a quotes for Sunrise and Vanguard from the same dealer. The difference in the quote is approximately $3000. As far as I can tell, the only benefits of the Vanguard over the Sunrise are sash reinforcement and slightly more foam insulation.

What would you recommend for my situation? I plan on staying in my home for 20+ years and don't want to go through this again.

Once again, thank you all for sharing your knowledge with us!

randy
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#2 Post by randy »

Sunrise casements don't have sash reinforcement in any of the lines, so that's not an issue. I'm not sure, but I doubt that Sunrise has more than one casement anyway. There may be more foam in the extrusions and the glass packages might vary slightly, but that's probably about it.

I would encourage you to contact Window4U, a regular pro here on the boards. He can guide you through the product options (Soft-lite, Okna, Sunrise) and his attention to detail regarding installation is the best in Chicago. Getting the right windows is only half of the equation, he can provide the other half - superior installation.

TheWindowNerd
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#3 Post by TheWindowNerd »

Window4U is the person I would trust to advise about product selection and installation.

Hurry he is an old dog, who knows how long he will be around.

masterext
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#4 Post by masterext »

I would'nt worry about reinforcement in the casement, your's are narrow. Foam does serve as a SORT of reinforcement .
Take Randy's advice though.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#5 Post by HomeSealed »

+1 on Window4U, excellent resource. As the other guys have stated, most casements including Sunrise will not have reinforcement. If you are looking for something very stout, the composite Starmark line that W4U carries might be a good option.

toddinmn
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#6 Post by toddinmn »

Most all casements are overbuilt, even most from lower quality brands. I would want large picture windows fastened at the head and either run full length support or shim in multiple locations at the sill. Foam filled frames/sashes will do nothing for structural support.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#7 Post by Windows on Washington »

+1

Casements are often the top structural performers.

Foam should add to the structural stability but I have never seen it tested as such to verify and the impact would be negligible.

TheWindowNerd
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#8 Post by TheWindowNerd »

Most casement problems I observe are poor execution of design, bad installation, building settlement, and lack of maintenance.
Amazing how people never think about cleaning and lubricating the slide/glide tracks every five years.

masterext
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#9 Post by masterext »

The window nerd is the only guy i know that can make a lucid post at 4:30 in the morning.
Lol

tluke
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#10 Post by tluke »

Thanks for the responses guys. Just for the record, I was provided a sales brochure for Restorations casements that states that they are reinforced with FiberCore.

randy
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#11 Post by randy »

I just spoke with my Sunrise rep who confirmed that the Vanguard and the Restorations casements are not reinforced with FiberCore. The brochure reference to FiberCore is applicable to the double hungs and sliders only.

tluke
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#12 Post by tluke »

Thanks for following up, Randy. The websites for Vanguard and Restorations make no mention of FiberCore on the Casements page. However, as I mentioned, the brochure I was provided for Restorations states that there is FiberCore in the casements.

And 2 salesmen - one for Vanguard and one for Restorations - stated in their pitch that FiberCore was included.

I'm going to take this up with the salesmen. If FiberCore is not included, I would guess that there is very little, if any, difference amongst the Sunrise, Vanguard and Restorations casements. And this would make the sales pitch for Vanguard and Restorations at the very least very misleading and quite possibly even deceptive.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#13 Post by Windows on Washington »

tluke wrote:Thanks for following up, Randy. The websites for Vanguard and Restorations make no mention of FiberCore on the Casements page. However, as I mentioned, the brochure I was provided for Restorations states that there is FiberCore in the casements.

And 2 salesmen - one for Vanguard and one for Restorations - stated in their pitch that FiberCore was included.

I'm going to take this up with the salesmen. If FiberCore is not included, I would guess that there is very little, if any, difference amongst the Sunrise, Vanguard and Restorations casements. And this would make the sales pitch for Vanguard and Restorations at the very least very misleading and quite possibly even deceptive.
Possibly.

It is probably more likely that they just don't know (at least the sales guys).

Tell them what you found out and judge your reactions from there.

Might be a good bit of educating for them and they should appreciate that part of it.

masterext
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#14 Post by masterext »

The best thing to do is call Sunrise and speak to their engineer. You can also have the sales rep from Sunrise contact the engineer. They have all the drawings and specs and would be privy to all aspects of design. Do NOT rely on what the sales guy tells you, they are usually clueless.

randy
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Re: Sash Reinforcement for Long, Narrow Casements

#15 Post by randy »

What my rep pointed out was that in the dealer's price book there's a list of standard features for each window in the Vanguard line. Under the casement/awning section there is no reference to Fibercore reinforcement, as there is in the double hung section and in the slider section.

I would think that ignorance rather than deception is the cause of the incorrect information in this case. I just hope my sales rep was correct in what he told me. :roll:

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