Simonton 5500 spec questions

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ESM
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Simonton 5500 spec questions

#1 Post by ESM »

I am putting an addition on my house and have decided to use a Simonton 5500 window. I am in Orlando, FL area.

Windows Size came back at 36x63 for one and 36x60 for the other (I specified the 36" width up front). Could someone confirm which of these window size does indeed meet this for this specific window? My egress requirements are as follows: opening 5.7 square feet (grade floor, 5 square feet), 24” net clear height, 20” net clear width.

On the rest of the config, it came out as follows identical between the quotes: Tip-to-Tip 1" IGU, Super Spacer, ProSolar Shade Low E, Argon Gas, Double Glazed, Double Strength (1/8"), Full Screen Fiberglass Extruded Screen Mold, A2 Mtg Rail/Stile, Balance Covers, Two Air Latches, Two White, Logo Lock, Glass Warranty

Two differences in the quotes: One says IntJF-J and the other says IntJF, and one says Wrap Screen Separate, but I do not know what any of this means, can anyone explain?

In my subsequent research, I've found reference to the Supercept spacer as well as Super Solar. I found some posts on the forums about Intercept vs. Supercept vs. Super Spacer but couldn't come to a conclusion on what is best, and if the 1" IGU forces one or the other, so I would appreciate a recommendation here. I also couldn't find anything about what Super Solar was and how it compared to ProSolar Shade Low E so I'm looking for info on that.

Lastly, looking for general recommendation on any changes to the config or if I need to add anything else. Construction of the exterior walls is 2x6 frame with 7/16" OSB on top and 3 coat stucco with wire lath on top of that.

Thanks in advance for advice/recommendations!

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

Egress minimums for clearance on a casement are 34 by 48. That being the case, there is no way that the double hung is going to make it at that size. Even if you figured on the larger size of 63", the sash doesn't open even close to 50% of the way because of the clearancing for the hardware, balance, etc. That 63" tall double hung probably only nets about 26" (max) in opening height. The width on that 36" wide double hung is probably 27" max. That will keep you well under the 5.7 sq/feet required.

Supercept spacer is a nice system and I think is more dependable than the Super Spacer.

On stucco installs, I always prefer a nailing flange option with some new trim and flashing.

ESM
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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#3 Post by ESM »

Both of these windows were supposed to be spec'd with a nailing flange. Is this what IntJF and IntJF-J might refer to?

As far as egress, this is a single story addition so egress should just be 5.0 sq ft for ground floor.

I found an egress calculator on Jeld-Wen's site (http://www.jeld-wen.com/professional/to ... calculator) which is based on IRC requirements, which is what my county is going on.

While I realize it's a different window, I used this calculator for the Jeld-Wen Premium Vinyl V-4500, Double Hung, Slopped Sill and 36x60 calculated as 4.957 which fails but 36x63 came back as 5.283 which passes. Can the Simonton 5500 Double Hung be that much different?

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

You need 5.7 sq/feet to pass.

Neither of the Jeld-Wens mentioned will pass.

Frame profile differences can change that number and the Simonton has a bulky profile.

The two designations probably refer to Integral Nailing Flange (pretty sure that should be IntNF) and Integral Nailing Flange and J-Channel (IntNF-J).

ESM
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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#5 Post by ESM »

Would I want the nailing fin with or without j-channel for a stucco application?

Doesn't the "Grade floor window" exception apply here?

From the FL building code (which is why my county goes by)
  • Chapter 2 - Definitions
  • Grade. The finished ground level adjoining the building at all exterior walls
  • Grade Floor Opening. A window or other opening located such that the sill height of the opening is not more than 44 inches (1118mm) above or below the finished ground level adjacent to the opening.
  • Chapter 3 - Building Planning, Section R310 Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings
  • R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required. Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping roll shall have at least one operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency egress and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping room. Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided, they shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118mm) above the floor. Where a door opening having a threshold below the adjacent ground elevation serves as an emergency escape and rescue opening and is provided with a bulkhead enclosure, the bulkhead enclosure shall comply with Section R310.3. The net clear opening dimensions required by this section shall be obtained by the normal operation of the emergency escape and rescue opening from the inside. Emergency escape and rescue openings with a finished sill height below the adjacent ground elevation shall be provided with a window well in accordance with section R310.2. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens opens to a public way.
    - Exceptions: 1) Basements used only to house mechanical equipment and not exceeding total floor area of 200 square feet (18.58m2). 2) The emergency escape and rescue opening shall be permitted to open into a screen enclosure, open to the atmosphere, where a screen door is provided leading away from the resident.
  • R310.1.1 Minimum opening area. All emergency escape and rescue openings shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5.7 square feet (0.530 m2).
    - Exception: Grade floor openings shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5 square feet (0.465 m2)
  • R310.1.2 Minimum opening height. The minimum net clear opening height shall be 24 inches (610mm)
  • R310.1.3 Minimum opening width. The minimum net clear opening width shall be 20 inches (508,,)
  • R310.1.4 Operational constraints. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room with the use of keys, tools or special knowledge.
The county permit review checklist full details: Sleeping room window for emergency escape: opening 5.7 square feet (grade floor, 5 square feet), 24” net clear height, 20” net clear width; maximum sill height = 44” . Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way (screen enclosure exception). (R310.1 through R310.1.5)

The floor-to-sill and grade-to-sill will be under under 44" (~25" for floor and ~30-32" for grade)

Doesn't this all come together to mean 5.0 sq ft is my minimum?

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#6 Post by Windows on Washington »

I was not aware of the grade floor exception. Be sure to check with your local code department as well as call Simonton and give them your sizes.

At a net clear of 28 by 24 (i.e. a DH that is 36 by 63 estimated opening size) will still be under 5 sq/ft.

If you call Simonton and give them the size, they will tell you what the net clear size is.

Whether you use nailing flange or nailing flange and J-Channel depends on how you are going to trim out the window.

ESM
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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#7 Post by ESM »

The existing house windows have stucco right to the window frame, but I'm looking to do some stucco work in general and do a typical 4-6" stucco band around the window for a more updated look.

So as far as this new window itself goes, the stucco band would be factored in as part of the fresh stucco for the addition.

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#8 Post by Windows on Washington »

If you are just doing rigid trim board around the window, just go with the nailing flange.

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#9 Post by toddinmn »

5.0 is acceptable for on grade applications. The grey area is the silk height of 44". Some inspectors will measure from the actual sill itself and some go to where the actual clear opening of the window which can be 2" to 4" higher than the sill. Most go by the latter. You will be close and may have to modify the opening to get a larger window in, Simon ton also has a Double hung window that is made to open larger than the 5500 which should make it easily.Some inspectors don't know all the exceptions so you may have to educate them. There may also be stricter codes from the city as well.

ESM
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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#10 Post by ESM »

I spoke with one of the companies who gave me a quote previously, and they are probably the largest Windows/Door company in this area. I asked them if the 36x63 DH 5500 would meet the minimum egress and they re-confirmed this again. I also have a call into Simonton but the woman who answered the phone knew nothing (and admitted so) and said she would have to research and call back.

If they measure the 44" from sash or window opening, I'll still be a good 8-10" below the 44" max height, so that one doesn't seem like it will be a problem.

I only have to deal with my county for permitting/inspection since I'm unincorporated so no city permitting is involved and in this case the county goes buy the FL Building Code I quoted

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#11 Post by toddinmn »

I'd say your good to go.

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#12 Post by Windows on Washington »

Sounds like you are good to go as well.

FYI, the code that is cited is FL adoption of the IRC.

Most states and localities adopt the IRC and some supersede it with additional provisions.

ESM
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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#13 Post by ESM »

This is what got ordered: 36"x63" Simonton 5500 White DH, Tip-to-Tip, InfJF-J (integral nail fin w/o J channel), 1" IGU, Super Spacer, ProSolar Shade Low E, Argon Gas, Double Glazed, Double Strength (1/8"), Full Screen Fiberglass Extruded Screen Mold, A2 Mtg Rail/Stile, Two Air Latches, Two White, Logo Lock, Balance Covers, Glass Warranty (UI=99"), DP 35, U-Factor .29, SHGC .20

I asked about the Supercept instead of the Super Spacer and the feedback I got was that they are extremely similar on performance and that they didn't have a particular recommendation for one over the other. I was also going to ask about Krypton upgrade vs. Argon but when they told me they can honor the quote I had from 4 months ago (which matches the above), I decided to just stick with it as-is.

Total was $382 for window only, hopefully that's a reasonable price.

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#14 Post by toddinmn »

I'd go triple pane before krypton. The pricing Sounds a tad high but I'm a little out of touch on the retail side. Just might have to look a little more into retail sales. Superspace is good and the best glass package depends on a lot of variables. I condider sash reinforcement since it is usually an inexpensive option.

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Re: Simonton 5500 spec questions

#15 Post by TheWindowNerd »

being in Orlando Fl the double pane with Low e argon will be great.
good choices.

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