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 Post subject: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Chicago, IL
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We live in a townhome in Chicago, IL and some of the windows we have are falling apart.
We expect to stay in the house for a few more years and then sell it so we are changing the windows more as an investment than anything else. Due to the association rules we are limited to these models:
1. Renewal by Anderson Double Hung Windows, Fiberglass composite called Fibrex
2. Pella Double Hung Windows.
a. Pella Impervia: Fiberglass composite called Duracast.
b. Pella 750 Design Series (newly approved as of 4/2015).
c. Pella 850 Architect Series.
d. Pella Proline Full Construction
3. Anderson 400 Series Tilt Wash Double Hung Window.
4. Sunrise Full Frame Construction Double Hung Window.
5. Marvin Ultimate Aluminum Clad Window.
6. NEW - Marvin Infinity (Ultrex Fiberglass) double hung window.
7. Marvin Infinity Double Hung Full Frame Construction

After some reading we think we want to go with the Sunrise as they seem to be good and being vinyl we thought that they are cheaper...
We got a quote today for Sunrise (she said is standard, not essentials but she didn't say if it's verde, vanguard or restorations) though, and they are asking for $11350 for 13 windows (5 doubles and 1 triple all double hung) insert into the exiting frame (which I am not sure the association will approve considering they approved the sunrise full frame model). That is almost $900/window and I was expecting something in the lines of 6-700(according to Angie's list). Can I expect lower prices from other dealers? Should I go with another model?


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:28 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I'd agree that the Sunrise should have a distinct advantage as far as performance across that entire list. There are a few other choices that are solid as well, but the Sunrise will be the best performer.

On the price, it can be hard to say with so many variables as far as installation and product options, etc. I would suggest getting another quote or two for comparison, otherwise it is only speculation. For reference, I would say that it is not out of the ordinary to see Sunrise in that $600-$700 range that you anticipated, however again, many variables can jump that price up pretty quickly.

Lastly, on that Sunrise model and most of the lines on your list for that matter, be careful about which glass package you select. Now that Energy Star is .27 u value (or lower) in the Northern Region, most of those manufacturers use an interior surface(4) low e coating that significantly hinders condensation in order to reach that u value. You would be MUCH better off in triple pane if it fits your budget, otherwise a standard low e coating like 272 that won't be Energy Star rated, but will probably make you a happier camper with less condensation.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Thanks for the glass tip, they quoted us with N2100A which is .29...I sent them an email asking for a price difference if we would put N2210A which is .25

Oh yeah, and i have another 3 companies coming in for a quote. I do have a feeling these guys are taking advantage of the fact that the association has their name on the list of past vendors they used...


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:08 pm 
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I'm not familiar with those number designations. Just be sure to look at the CR ratings (condensation resistance) in addition to the U value. Anything in the low 50's and 40's is undesirable. The better products see high fifties minimum, and into the sixties and 70's (latter being triple pane)


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Here are the Glass types for Sunrise: http://www.sunrisewindows.com/low-e-gla ... hern-zone/
The N2210a is energy star, but the dealer said it would cost me $588 to put that glass and I only get $200 tax credit...I have to study this...
Also for a full frame replacement she said it's going to be $4900 more...that seems a lot...
I attached a picture of the quote, the windows are all DH-1W width 31, height 69, double hung.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:53 pm 
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marioana wrote:
Here are the Glass types for Sunrise: http://www.sunrisewindows.com/low-e-gla ... hern-zone/
The N2210a is energy star, but the dealer said it would cost me $588 to put that glass and I only get $200 tax credit...I have to study this...
Also for a full frame replacement she said it's going to be $4900 more...that seems a lot...
I attached a picture of the quote, the windows are all DH-1W width 31, height 69, double hung.


Unfortunately that really gives no relevant information. Ask for a CPD # that can be verified on NFRC.org


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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Brandon,

Those Sunrise codes are regular double and triple argon packages without any interior surface #4 or #6 hard coats. The N2100A would be similar to what our OKNA does with the standard dx package except for the fact that the Vanguard that I do once in a while tests out .02 worse than an 800dx in regards to overall U-factor. This is partially due to the stainless spacer from Cardinal opposed to Duralite.

The latest updates from Sunrise that I received this week boasted proudly better air leakage numbers than the last testing that they had on report. They dropped on their double hungs from a .04 to a .02. which is nice improvement, but possibly at a cost. It appears from the test results that the overall u-factor went in the wrong direction and now is a .29? I called Sunrise to get to the bottom of this and the girls weren't up to speed on this and suggested I contact my factory rep. My factory rep isn't happy that I'm not selling all that many units these days due to the other offerings that I prefer with stronger frames, so to get him to call me back is like pulling teeth.

The Sunrise CR rating on those glass packs is on par with what we like to see from top shelf windows.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Thanks for clarifying Mike. Glad to see that. I've seen some of Sunrise's recent literature where they seem to be pushing the surface 4 package, as if I'm not mistaken, that is the only way that they meet the ENergy Star Northern Region .27 without using triple pane.

It sounds like we are in agreement that most homeowners in the region would be best off with their (Sunrise) Energy Star triple pane, or a non-Energy Star double pane (.29 u value) as opposed to the surface 4 Energy Star double pane with .27 or better.

Personally I think this puts them at a significant disadvantage to companies like Softlite and Okna that meet the .27 or lower with standard double pane, however triple pane makes the point moot and is probably advisable in the north anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:28 pm 
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I just got off of the phone with one of the engineers from Sunrise and he is emailing me my Vanguard updated tests results with the NFRC. The blanket email link for all Sunrise dealers just showed the base Sunrise series test results

The Verde, Vanguard, and I assume Restorations have an extra frame chamber/hollow with foam insulation to just nod the performance .01 better on their DH units. My N2100A double-glazed glass package is unchanged in terms of overall u-factor and comes in a 0.28.

I agree with Brandon though, moving forward with a Northern Energy Star compliant window I would prefer to just go triple and have a preferable CR number than to chance the condensation with a the interior hard coat.

My thoughts on Sunrise is that they really are chasing Andersen's marketing and success. I don't think that they want to play the engineering and performance game as opposed to having more fancy literature and options. Still and very nice window for vinyl.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL
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I got another quote today $11500 for standard, $10650 for essentials and $13000 for Restorations. That is with full frame replacement just without the outside casing which can't be done due to association.
I have another 2 companies coming in on Monday and another on Tuesday, and after that we will decide...
Anyway $11500 sounds much better than $16000.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL
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I didn't thought this will be so hard :(.
Company#1:$16200
Company#2:$10168
Company#3:$12500, but quote included a picture window above the door and wood color on the inside. They "forgot" to send me the white interior quote.
Company#4: $10250, but kept insisting on Great Lakes windows, according to them those are better than Sunrise.
Company#5 didn't got back to me yet.
And above all my husband has doubts vinyl is the best way to go, he says people prefer wood...


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
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Too bad that Okna is not on their list. It will give any of these windows a run for the money on performance numbers and you'd probably save money too. They would be comparable in options to the Sunrise full frame model.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:45 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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I would agree that people historically like wood windows. I like them a lot.
Here are the downsides to wood windows: price, rot, and performance.
I can accept and enjoy that some people are will to spend more money than others to buy premium products. It is difficult to understand binding that with two more faults: the possibility of rot and low performance levels.
Windows made of vinyl or fiberglass are the best.

TheWindowNerd.


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL
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So we went with the first company, we submitted the architectural request to the association, and today I got a call from the contractor saying the association called them and asked them to increase the price on the windows. Have anyone heard of something like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Window replacement options and prices
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:43 pm
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marioana wrote:
So we went with the first company, we submitted the architectural request to the association, and today I got a call from the contractor saying the association called them and asked them to increase the price on the windows. Have anyone heard of something like this?


No I personally have not. I'm interested to see how it turns out.


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