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 Post subject: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 15
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Western Suburb of Boston area install, so we have a pretty good heating season (except for last year).

Current windows are DP Caradco wood circa early 1997, 21 DH and 1 picture. Big big big mistake letting contractor use the Caradco when we built, but we didn't know better.

I received quote for Zen Lotus and Harvey Tribute, and "soft" quote for Soft-Lite Elements. Zen is out, more than Elements.

I went up to nfrc.org and tried to get the best combo of U factor, SHGC, VT, and CR. I get condensation from the Caradcos and noted that 2016 e-star with 4th surface LowE causes many 2016 e-rated windows to have lower CR (Like the Cardinal I89 on the Harvey Tribute).

Saw Soft-Lite Elements and Harvey Tribute in same showroom. I can SEE Elements has better weather stripping, and the k beam, better AI, and foam filled extrusions all make good sense to me. And super spacer is better than the stainless spacer in the Harvey.

So, it's no question right? Well, the Harvey quote was over $4000 less comparing DP to DP! Wait, just looked at nfrc site again! Tribute DP has under 50 CR rating, so would I have to go triple, right? so it would be $3500 less. Triple would get me me foam on Tribute and .18/.21/.39/60 (U/SHGC/VT/CR), but that .21 SHGC isn't great for my location, or am I wrong? Will the dog that likes to lie in the sun in the winter now shun me?

Elements would be .26/.28/.51/61 for DP, and $40 to go UltraS triple (.19/.24/.40/71). I like the SHGC and VT for DP better than TP, and figured less weight, less sealing so less chance of a bad seal?

I like the numbers for Okna 500 and tried the dealer locator on their website, but received no reply.

I'm thinking the Harvey would be much better than what I have lived with for all these years and $3500 could go towards the kitchen, but I have doubts that i'm being penny wise and pound foolish? Nearly 20 years from current windows, want 20 more! That is the other thing that scares me, replacements (with current contractor grade frames versus full frame, but full frame means replacing lots of cedar siding.

Analysis paralysis!


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 669
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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The elements has triple fin weather stripping in 3 locations with an anti-microbeal.
It also has a mortised sill wall with a sill interlock with qlon and an extra seal on the bottom sash. The elements also has a nice interior design and you already mentioned the reinforcement.
The harvey has none of these features. One last thing, the vinyl walls on the elements are thicker/ stronger.
The harvey is just not in the same league as the elements.
I also think Harvey is still using a tin plated steel spacer and not stainless. The elements is definitely worth the extra money.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 15
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Thank you.

With Elements, any opinions for/against DP vs TP? As previously stated, I like the SHGC and VT, but if spending a bit more over 20 years?

There aren't many installers for Elements near me. TP would be around $700/DH installed with full height screens and between glass grids.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 669
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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The pricing seems good. If you can do triple pane, i would choose that option.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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$700 for triple pane Elements is probably the lowest price I've ever seen on that product. Top end window with triple pane and a low price? Sounds like a slam dunk assuming that this dealer is a reputable company, which Elements dealers typically are... I'd agree with Masterext that these products are not on the same level. All of your research is spot-on, the only thing that I do not see mentioned is air leakage. This is another important factor, and another item that tips the scale strongly toward the Elements. If you were able to get a quote on the Okna 800 you would have a comparable unit to the Elements, however I'm not sure that you'd be able to find that price with triple pane.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 15
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Still not sure about triple. The soft-lite right next to it with double was noticeably less dark in the showroom. My current thought is double soft-lite is better than triple tribute. I'm TRYING to get dealer/installer from Okna.l, but no response yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:54 am
Posts: 30
Location: DFW, TX
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Just curious if you called them. That is what I had to do in order to find a local dealer, spoke to a lady named Sharlene. One big note, let them know what product you are wanting (IE vinyl windows). I got the name of the only vendor locally and scheduled a visit from them. Turns out, they only offer Okna's composite window products, not their vinyl. Pretty disappointing, since I was wanting vinyl.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 988
Location: Houston, TX
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gti16vman, are you in the Houston area?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 15
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I called and got a dealer name. I should not have counted on the web contact form. I actually found another name via web search earlier today as well. I have the web search dealer/installer coming out Wednesday to talk about 500/800 and am in email contact with the phone contact dealer/installer. Once I see the Okna, I'll decide. I did notice from NFRC that the Okna that uses Climaguard IS-15 glass has a lower CR than I'd like so I'll be avoiding that package.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:40 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 669
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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Okna tested a a multitude of various glass packages but they certainly dont offer each amd everyone of them; this includes IS -15 glass.
Okna gets a .25 uFactor with their standard glass package. They dont need IS-15.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:54 am
Posts: 30
Location: DFW, TX
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randy wrote:
gti16vman, are you in the Houston area?


No sir, DFW. Gulf Coast was the only company they said was up here and when the sales guy came out, he said they only did Okna composite. They had a vinyl offering from a different comapny, but he didn't leave me any literature.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 988
Location: Houston, TX
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Ok. I know that the Okna territory rep is working on getting a dealer set up in the DFW area. Might not be fast enough to be of assistance in your case though. Sunrise is available there.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 15
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Saw Okna 500 and 800 today.

I think I like the 500 since it seemed to be less "bulky" compared to the Elements. The sill wasn't as "busy" and probably wouldn't collect dust and pollen as much.

I'm getting a quote for 500 with triple/argon/foam filled, though I do wonder if I shouldn't just go with 800 for the reinforced sash.

That said, I like the single mechanism tilt of the Soft-Lite and I might need to see the Elements one last time to compare the finishing of the "welding" seams.

The comment from the dealer/installer on the Okna was full screens are a bit difficult to remove/install. Does anyone have experience with that? I like full screens to top and bottom vent, and I remove them every Fall.

Last deciding factor will be quality of the install which is harder for me to measure. I could live with either, I want a GREAT install. I liked hearing about foam (versus fiberglass) and installs without the head expander.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 988
Location: Houston, TX
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Full length screens are a bit more difficult to remove and install for all manufacturers. Not a big deal though.

100% agree with everything you said regarding the installation. Foam is far superior to fiberglass, and not a fan of header expanders either.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows, I think I know what I should do, but...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 4351
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Header/Expanders are not required on a bunch of different installation but it ultimately depends on the opening type and level/squareness of the opening.

If you can get away without full screens, I always prefer that.


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