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 Post subject: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Hello All,

I received 2 quotes last week for 22 vinyl double hung windows, and I'm a little surprised the games they played. I expected to be around $800-$1000 for a good quality window. I'm not certain either of these truly fall into that "mid-high" category though.

Both windows are dual-pane, Low-E coated, SuperSpacer, argon filled, and sashes are fiberglass reinforced.

First was Universal Windows Direct, on their UniShield Plus, which seems to be made by Polaris. I can't see a clear indicator if it's ThermaWeld or UltraWeld. The initial quoted price was $28k, and magically dropped to $19k after they "remembered" we met them at a recent home show and talked for 3 minutes. They eventually landed on $16k good for one night only. Full-frame instead of replace-only added a flat $250 per window. From reading about the window it seems to be decent quality, but the $9k price drop for simply talking at a home show was a bit shocking.

Second was was "new" Stanek, now owned by Great Day Improvements. They wouldn't quote us on replace-only. They quoted full-frame. Overall the window seemed pretty similar to the UWD, but has a 1" gap in glass instead of 7/8". Their quote was $30k, dropped to $27k for the "home show discount" and eventually ended with $26k with free painting of the new trim "in the next 5 days".

Any input would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Zach,

Keep shopping. Both of those type of deep discount drops are not my idea of realistic sales process or reasonable discount.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Thanks for the quick reply.

Obviously with a large investment like this I don't want to get taken, and if I'm spending a good chunk of change I want a quality product.

Any suggestions for Brand\Model to look for in the "mid" to "mid-high" range? I see Soft-Lite is well liked on the forum, and there's a few local dealers around, but I'm certainly open to other options.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Based on staying in the family of product (vinyl) for your original quotes; Soft-Lite Elements, Sunrise Restorations, Okna Envirostar, HomeGuard Innovations, and Kensington Quantum 2 are all well regarded vinyl products.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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I agree with Eric.
Give special attention to the Okna/HiMark 800DX.

theWindowNerd


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have a couple local Soft-Lite and Sunrise dealers that I'll be setting up meetings with soon. Having trouble locating an Okna dealer, but I have a call in to Okna for suggestions.

I've been checking the vendor list for the next home show coming up as well and now that I have some idea what to start looking for, I might have some other leads.

Thoughts on the Polaris Ultraweld? I found a very well-liked installer in the area that deals with the Ultraweld family for their mid\high end products.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:30 pm 
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The UltraWeld is a solid window indeed. Runs a bit on the chunky side when it comes to frame dimensions...but is a built like a tank.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Just met with a well-reviewed local company that seems to have the first reasonable salesman I've worked with.

They primarily install Polaris windows, but have availability for other manufacturers based in OH.

His quote substantially beat the first two I received, and he didn't play any games.

He suggested that the extra cost of the UltraWeld vs ThermaWeld, as well as upgrades like a stainless steel intercept spacer or triple pane aren't really necessary. His reasoning was that it's initial larger investment but will take many years to recoup that cost difference. What are your thoughts on that recommendation?

Also curious on the benefits of upgrades like Innergy fiberglass sash reinforcement. Was told Innergy is only useful if the window is 40"+ wide.


Last edited by zach on Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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It all sounded good until his recommendation. The Ultraweld is a MUCH better window. Air leakage rating of .01 vs the .15 (or thereabout) on the Thermalweld. When I sold Polaris windows it was either the UW, or I dropped down to the Value smart. Never had any use for the Thermal weld. Furthermore, I'd strongly disagree on the spacer system and other recommendations as well.
1) The stainless spacer is superior in every way, and I believe it is needed to get the .27 u value required by Energy Star with a double pane glass package.
2) Triple pane is where the industry is going. It will take a while to pay for itself in energy savings, however it will pay for itself at some point during the service life of the product in a climate such as yours in most cases.

This guy sounds like he is trying a little too hard to overcompensate against the "high-pressure" types, to the point where is recommending against things that would actually benefit you. May still be a good company and a good choice, but I'd definitely recommend the UW over TW, as well as the upgrades if they are in your budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll work with him to get a new quote with the various upgrades.

I think Sunrise is out at this point. The installers I've found in my area so far are either poorly reviewed for quality of install, or a custom home remodeling group with unreasonable prices.

The Soft-Lite quote is coming soon, and I'm still hoping to hear from Okna regarding dealers in our area.

With the info I have right now though, the Polaris UW with some upgrades is the winner.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Its definitely a solid option. Kudos to you on keeping up on the installer/installation quality as well. Very important part of the equation


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:54 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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Homesealed is spot on with the upgrade suggestions , I'd foam enhance the Windows as well.
I think the bigger framed windows are a plus in full framed replacements, I like the look of more frame when glass loss is not an issue. These recommendations are only good until the end of the day!


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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toddinmn wrote:
Homesealed is spot on with the upgrade suggestions , I'd foam enhance the Windows as well.
I think the bigger framed windows are a plus in full framed replacements, I like the look of more frame when glass loss is not an issue. These recommendations are only good until the end of the day!


I love the salesmanship here.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:51 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Just talked on the phone with one of the Soft-Lite dealers in our area. They said they offer the Timeless and Timeless-Elite options. Those appear to be similar to the Imperial LS and Elements, but I can't tell for sure. If I had to guess, this is just a re-badge of those windows, but I'll learn more this weekend.


Last edited by zach on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I would definitely research that. Softlite purchased Gorell a few years back and was reproducing some of their windows for a bit. I thought they had moved away from that, but I don't know the exact details. Timeless was a Gorell window. This could very well be a situation where this particular dealer wanted to keep selling as Timeless, but the window is now one of SL's core models. The Timeless had been based on the Gorell 5100, which I thought was replaced by the Bainbridge, but again, not sure where all that stands today. To further complicate things, SL itself was just purchased by Harvey building products, but I don't believe any product line changes have been integrated yet.... Long story short, ask what window this is based on. It's a relabel no doubt, who knows which one though... Is there any particular reason that you have backed off of the Polaris window?


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