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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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What type of install again? Wood outs?

A good triple pane window shouldn't be cheaper than high $700's - mid $800's in my opinion if the business is running a sustainable model.

Yes...$2,100 is crazy, but only about as crazy as someone selling a good triple pane window for in the $600's if you ask me.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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That $2100/window quote was for a full-frame install.

There is 1 window on the upper floor where the bottom plate of the frame has some rot. Poked around with an inspection camera and the rest of the structure is just fine.

We are opting for full tear-out because a few of the windows are rather tall and narrow and lost glass space will be noticeable. We also discovered there was never any insulation between the old window frame and the rough opening in nearly every room.

I'll see what Window Universe has to say on the 23rd, but as it stands today I have 2 reasonable quotes.

Polaris UW and Pella 250. They came within $100 of each other. I'm leaning towards Polaris based on the NFRC ratings.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Only way the Pella is superior is in terms of frame size (i.e. being smaller) in that comparison.

The UW is a much better unit in that horse race.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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+1. The Pella really shouldn't be an option IMO.

For an Elements with Cadillac option package, full frame install, new interior woodwork etc, I could see that cruising past the $1k per unit threshold, but again, $2k seems pretty excessive unless there are some major factors not being discussed.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Just met with the Okna installer. They'll likely be my final choice. Pricing was a bit less than the UltraWeld and Pella windows. Ratings are better, but close, to the Polaris UW, and substantially better than the Pella.

22 windows, 21 DH, 1 picture.
1 tempered + obscured
Full-Frame install

Okna 600
HeatSeal Deluxe
Reinforced meeting rail
Foam filled
Contour grid
Full screen

$730/window to have them drop off unfinished trim 2 weeks ahead of install
$785/window to have them pre-finish all trim

Compared to the Polaris UW at $865/window with unfinished trim, needing finishing after install, I think we have a winner.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:08 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:57 pm
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Zack did you go with the okna 600 ? I actually saw it as well and liked it except for the 2 different sash's. It looks incredibly strange. I have a hard time getting over that hump.
I saw the 500, 800, and 600. The 600 is a combination of the 800 and 500. The 600 has all the features of the 800 with the exception of the magnet. The 600 has the reinforcement bars and the sill interlocking feature and has a more narrow frame.
I would choose it over the 500 because it has the same engineering features as the 800 series.
My big decision is if i want to spend the extra on laminated glass. I live by a school and gets loud the the early morning hours. I would like to block most of that noise. Gonna look at Wasco and lindsay as well.


Last edited by Sano on Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:17 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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I actually just met with them last night, so no decision has been made yet.

I likely will go with the 600 though. It was a nice looking window and the price was right. I had a tough time finding anybody in the Cleveland area that sold Okna, and the 600 was all I found available.

The Polaris UltraWeld was my other top consideration. The NRFC ratings were pretty similar, but that thing has a beefy frame and we would have lost a lot of glass.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:40 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:57 pm
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The okna 600 is very close to the 800 series. Your price is close to what mine was.
I saw the polaris window by some window franchize and i thought it was ugly looking.
They just emailed me pricing for laminated and as i thought, it is high. Im going to choose triple pane glass as an alternative.
Anyone have an opinion on Wasco or Lindsay?


Last edited by Sano on Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:08 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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I would choose TP instead of laminated.

theWindowNerd


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Does the 600 have a nailing flange? If not, are there any concerns about how to properly seal the opening?

I do plan on going with the 600, but their sales rep wasn't terribly familiar with the full-frame install process. His quick run-down made it sound like they take things back to the rough opening and just cut off the old nailing flange and leave it in place.

I just want to make sure I'm not getting a great window with a poor install.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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The 600/800 series from OKNA is a replacement master frame design without the option of an extruded nailing flange like the 500/550. To perform a "flanged" and taped new construction method with the 600/800 series the OKNA dealer would have to order the optional heavy duty nailing flanges which come in like 14' loose lengths from OKNA. The window then must be prepped in regards to utility groove weld flash removal, the flanges get precision mitered typically at the job site and mechanically attached with a wet-bed of high quality exterior sealant like industrial silicone to the exterior and jambs of the windows.

This process of simply added factory nailing flanges to the 600/800 series isn't something that can be done in like 15-minutes per window correctly. It can wrap up one of the installers for up to 1-hour per window and the cost of the actual flange alone is about $20 or more a window. If you're throwing this at your sales guy and he/she isn't versed in this option I would expect their head to spin.

This option probably accounts for 25% of my OKNA 800 sales as changing out 10-20 year old failing vinyl new construction windows is a large part of my marketplace. This isn't the only way to perform a full-frame tear out, but it's the best method. One can not perform this technique with stone or brick facing. Mechanical trim boards added to the face of the sheathing correctly lipped over/to the edge of the new window is also a common method. There are many replacement outfits out there that only perform "express" methods.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Delaware Mike wrote:
The 600/800 series from OKNA is a replacement master frame design without the option of an extruded nailing flange like the 500/550. To perform a "flanged" and taped new construction method with the 600/800 series the OKNA dealer would have to order the optional heavy duty nailing flanges which come in like 14' loose lengths from OKNA. The window then must be prepped in regards to utility groove weld flash removal, the flanges get precision mitered typically at the job site and mechanically attached with a wet-bed of high quality exterior sealant like industrial silicone to the exterior and jambs of the windows.

This process of simply added factory nailing flanges to the 600/800 series isn't something that can be done in like 15-minutes per window correctly. It can wrap up one of the installers for up to 1-hour per window and the cost of the actual flange alone is about $20 or more a window. If you're throwing this at your sales guy and he/she isn't versed in this option I would expect their head to spin.

This option probably accounts for 25% of my OKNA 800 sales as changing out 10-20 year old failing vinyl new construction windows is a large part of my marketplace. This isn't the only way to perform a full-frame tear out, but it's the best method. One can not perform this technique with stone or brick facing. Mechanical trim boards added to the face of the sheathing correctly lipped over/to the edge of the new window is also a common method. There are many replacement outfits out there that only perform "express" methods.


Actually the 600 does have an extruded fin option (6600), at least it does in fenevision. The 800 is the only one that does not. That said, this process described above may be applicable anyway depending on options. I didn't read back through the thread, but if woodgrain laminates are ordered I believe a snap in fin is needed.

Mike's description of the process and detail involved is excellent, and these are definitely some of the finer points of the process that separate true craftsmen... There are multiple way to do a "full frame" window, so make sure that you get a detailed description to ensure that your expectations will be fulfilled. Can a full frame be done without a fin? Yes. Is a fin preferred? Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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Thanks Brandon for the clarification. I had incorrectly thought that 600 shared the same master frame as the 800 series and not just the sashes. It's been a while since I have seen the 600.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Delaware Mike wrote:
Thanks Brandon for the clarification. I had incorrectly thought that 600 shared the same master frame as the 800 series and not just the sashes. It's been a while since I have seen the 600.

No worries, I had to double check myself! ... I think the frame is based on the 500, and the sashes on the 800. Different sill though.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on NE Ohio quote
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 669
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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The 600 series does utilize the same sill as the 800 with an interlock. Very solid.


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