Replacement Double Hungs

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rich123
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Replacement Double Hungs

#1 Post by rich123 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:03 pm

House in SW PA, built in 1980, has original Anderson Woods that are shot.

Deal with a decent window guy he is offering basic Vista Panorama, no upgrades, first 335, then I talked him down to 300, 11 windows, 3300.

Got another qoute from another online forum window site that now sells windows, Berkshire Elites, with foam, argo, low e, lifetime glass breakage, bla bla bla, 4500.

I am not done looking for quotes, but I was pretty set on the vista's for the price, as this may be a flip.

I have requested an Okna quote but I havent heard back from the local dealer I am sure it will be too much.

So lets focus on these two, the Elites are being talked up as improved, everything I read says that they arent so great, the balance system, warranty, foam filled and numbers looked good but I am suspicious of these windows being pumped up on paper.

I am not so concerened about the numbers, I actually like some draft for air quality purposes in the winter, I open my windows all the time in the warmer months, I am more interested in operational reliability and sturdiness and quietness when the windows are closed. Coming from garbage Plygem in a newer construction.

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#2 Post by Delaware Mike » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:33 am

Does that pricing include any type of exterior capping and interior stop molding? If not, a "caulk and walk" or "slip and get" type of install on that project is going to very disappointing in appearance. Also, if the current Andersen units are shot, how are the sills? We see them completely rot out in which all of the wood that is cladded in PVC rotted out and then the sill frowns really bad sometimes.

We used to do the Panorama on flips and rentals back in the day and never had problems with them in general Thin extrusion, bug flaps on irrigation sills, ugly welds, bulky, but the units did the job and worked nice. I have much better options now on a entry level window so Vista went the way of the dinosaurs for us.

rich123
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#3 Post by rich123 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:23 am

Thanks Mike,

Both quotes are exterior trim, nothing inside though I want to redo inside trim at some point.
I will have to look hard at the sills now. They look ok from casual glance, even the bay looks pretty good outside, though screens gone, hardware missing inside and the seat area dog scratched up.

Of my quotes, the vista installer wants to use Superior windows Bay to replace the Bay for 2250 and the Berkshire offer is replace both small doubles and the picture window and call it a day bumping my quote to 5700ish.

IM def not married to these offers, what should I be looking at on the low end 300 a window and what should I look at for another 100 a window say 400.

THis is one of those situations where I am not sure I will stay at this house for a few years or flip it in a year, so thats why I am not sure how much I should go on the windows, I have lots of other updates needed, kitchen, bath, walls, hvac, ect.

But between the basic vista and the Berkshire elite, how do they compare? I get the feeling at the 400 a window I should be looking at something else.

Delaware Mike wrote:Does that pricing include any type of exterior capping and interior stop molding? If not, a "caulk and walk" or "slip and get" type of install on that project is going to very disappointing in appearance. Also, if the current Andersen units are shot, how are the sills? We see them completely rot out in which all of the wood that is cladded in PVC rotted out and then the sill frowns really bad sometimes.

We used to do the Panorama on flips and rentals back in the day and never had problems with them in general Thin extrusion, bug flaps on irrigation sills, ugly welds, bulky, but the units did the job and worked nice. I have much better options now on a entry level window so Vista went the way of the dinosaurs for us.
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HomeSealed
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#4 Post by HomeSealed » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:56 pm

The vista window is not very good IMO, and that pricing suggest that this is a dude working for beer money. A professional, reputable company cannot install even the cheapest windows for $300... I mentioned on another thread that even the bargain companies like the window world types are easily into the $400's, and that is basically the equivalent of Walmart. It sounds like perhaps the Berkshire deal is along those lines, and if that is your budget, you aren't likely to do any better.

I also have to add that wanting leaky windows in the winter for air quality is ancient logic. Concept is somewhat right, but you want measured and controlled air exchange in your home, not leaky windows or other areas. This issue is pretty much the the basis of the entire home performance and weatherization industry, and a primary factor in determining energy efficiency.

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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#5 Post by masterext » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:29 pm

Saying you want drafy windows in the winter for air quaity is kind of absurd. That means you want very hot humid air leaking through your windows in the hot summer months. If they are drafty in tne winter, they are equally as drafty in the summer. You cant have it one way in the winter and another way in the summer. When your area gets a cold spell in the teens, then tell me with a straight face that you want drafty windows for air quality.
You always have the option of opening a few windows for some air circulation with quality, energy efficient windows. You dont have that option with low quality windows as they are constantly in a " drafty state". They dont have an on/ off switch.

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#6 Post by Delaware Mike » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:35 pm

When frame jumping vinyl inserts into Andersen Narrowlines I try to recommend something that isn't nearly as bulky as Vista or Alside. The older Soft-Lite lines such as the Pro/Classic or Bainbridge/Barrington's could fit nicely, however working within the confines of such a tight budget will be challenging for an established window pro with any kind of overhead. I also think the OKNA 400 series could work nicely but sort of prefer a window extrusion with a bottom face utility groove for running the factory supplied sill angles so the height of the sill nose can be kept as low profile as possible.

Your house looks virtually identical to one of my favorite homeowners out in S. Eastern PA about 30 minutes from Lancaster. One of my old friends at Power Remodeling Group actually referred me to them as they don't do flanged new construction windows which is what they wanted when they ditched their old Andersen units. They had Home Depot do the basement units with the Simonton 5050 and the job was very unsatisfactory. I got elected to make the capping and caulking more presentable which is why some of us long term pros get a little "snobbish" when it comes to really questionable low priced quotes. Bad capping and sloppy tons of caulkings can look real bad after a very short time when the brilliant white newness of the windows sees some weather, air born dirt and pollen.

I would suggest talking to a few more window pros.

rich123
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#7 Post by rich123 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:39 pm

Thanks Mike,

I am buying this as a foreclosure and its tapped me out pretty bad, paying cash, I really respect all of you pro's and I am just cash strapped and thats why I am fishing on the low end of the product pond for this house, it might still be a flip but I plan on living there for at least a year or 2 and it needs alot of updating, inside and out.

I do like my usual window guy but he does this on the side, he is vet and I try to use vets whenever possible, he mainly does flip and rentals.

I will read up and research more before taking the plunge, I guess I could probably go up to 500 a window but thats about it.
Delaware Mike wrote:When frame jumping vinyl inserts into Andersen Narrowlines I try to recommend something that isn't nearly as bulky as Vista or Alside. The older Soft-Lite lines such as the Pro/Classic or Bainbridge/Barrington's could fit nicely, however working within the confines of such a tight budget will be challenging for an established window pro with any kind of overhead. I also think the OKNA 400 series could work nicely but sort of prefer a window extrusion with a bottom face utility groove for running the factory supplied sill angles so the height of the sill nose can be kept as low profile as possible.

Your house looks virtually identical to one of my favorite homeowners out in S. Eastern PA about 30 minutes from Lancaster. One of my old friends at Power Remodeling Group actually referred me to them as they don't do flanged new construction windows which is what they wanted when they ditched their old Andersen units. They had Home Depot do the basement units with the Simonton 5050 and the job was very unsatisfactory. I got elected to make the capping and caulking more presentable which is why some of us long term pros get a little "snobbish" when it comes to really questionable low priced quotes. Bad capping and sloppy tons of caulkings can look real bad after a very short time when the brilliant white newness of the windows sees some weather, air born dirt and pollen.

I would suggest talking to a few more window pros.

rich123
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#8 Post by rich123 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:11 am

I'm curious if anyone has looked at the Sash conversion kits when dealing with these anderson windows, should I ever consider this or is the performance still too poor to even mess with replacing the sashes.

https://www.andersenwindows.com/plannin ... tallation/

toddinmn
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#9 Post by toddinmn » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:01 pm

Not a bad way to go. Don't forget to add cost for painting or staining the sash and the cost of new screens if needed.

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#10 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:11 am

What is the price like for the conversion kit for your project?

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#11 Post by Windows on Washington » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:37 am

What kind of shape are the frames in? Sash kits are an option if your frames are in great shape. If the frames are torqued or out of square, sash kits can be a real problem child as well.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#12 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:08 am

Sash kits aren't my favorite generally speaking, as the existing frames are typically out of square at least to some degree. They can work though when done properly... The main factor IMO would be as Todd mentioned, cost. Are you saving any money by the time they are stained up and fully installed? Not very likely, but I suppose it depends what your guy would charge..

As for the replacement option, if you are bumping the budget to the $500 range you have a chance. That is still light for the top performing options, but you can generally get something very solid for that. If you have you own guy doing the install, you can source a good window on your own and definitely come in under.

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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#13 Post by fridge2020 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:47 am

Not a fan at all of sash kits. Bad money IMO

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Re: Replacement Double Hungs

#14 Post by TheWindowNerd » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:38 am

AW conversion kits can be a good option for limited applications.
As has been mentioned a close inspection of all existing frame conditions is required for proper consideration. Having done many of these I can tell you that a vinyl replacement window is a better choice based on both cost and results.
Look at the Okna 400 and or DX. Some of us understand what it means to get down and dirty on a flip. Some of our budget clients have been our easist, they are not overly concerned. The scope of work may be different than our regular project, but as long as all involved understand then that is okay.

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