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 Post subject: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:37 am 

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 7:21 am
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Hello everyone,

First off, thank you for taking time to support this site. I discovered several window brands that I didn't know existed.

Right now I'm getting quotes to replace 7 aluminum windows (original to 1985 construction). Three are 36x36 four are 48x48.

Quoted Weathergard
Quoted Andersen 100 & 200
Quoting Sunrise standard and vanguard this week.
Would like to quote OKNA (500/600), but I can't seem to find a dealer. Does OKNA have a presence in MI?

I would like to quote another brand similar to the sunrise standard & vanguard. I like the insulated and reinforced frames for the large windows. Any suggestions?

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:20 am 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Not sure if they are in Michigan but a comparable product would be Soft-Lite Imperial LS.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:25 pm 

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So now I have all the quotes in and I'm looking for some feedback.
Andersen 100 - $7200
Sunrise standard - $4400
Sunrise vanguard - $4800
Provia endure - $3900
Soft lite classic - $4900
Soft lite elements - $5406

I like both the provia and soft lite with the super (non metallic) spacers. Elements are a bit out of my budget. All quotes are with equivalent glass.

Is the soft lite classic $1000 better than the provia?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Vanguard or the Elements if its me.

You are only spending the money once in a lifetime so I would get the best window that you can reasonably afford.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:48 pm 

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 7:21 am
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Hi WoW, thank you for helping me out!

Last question, all things being equal (size, glass package, color), do you feel the soft lite elements demands a $70 per window price premium over the sunrise vanguard? Both installers are reputable.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:52 pm 
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If I am a devout performance junkie...yes.

If I care about the looks, the Vanguard is the prettier unit but is not quite the engineering juggernaut that the Elements is.

Is the Vanguard still better than 97% of the vinyl out there...yes. Just not quite as good as the Elements when it comes to thermals and structural numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:03 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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The Provia Endure would be the winner for me. It has good performance numbers and is a nice looking window that is well built. If we are talking double Hungs or sliders for your openings I would rule out Sunrise. They are a bit to thin profile for me and especially at those sizes.
If pricing is not a factor the Element is hard to beat but the Endure is a close second. At 40% less than the Element and 30% less than the Classic it is the clear winner if all window options and install methods are the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:00 am 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Based on the width of the windows, I'd also choose the Elements from this group. I'd eliminate the classic, the andersen, and frankly I'd have to agree with Todd and eliminate the Sunrise units here as well assuming that they are double hungs. Casements would be a different story, I'd flip Sunrise and Elements in that case.
I understand that there is a price premium, but keep in mind that this is a purchase with a 30 year service life. Not as much of a difference from that perspective if you can swing it... Also, that price is not unreasonable.

On the Provia, I'm somewhat lukewarm. Seems like a nice window, decent numbers, but I also know of a couple dealers that tried them out and weren't happy with the QC. That's kind of a shock because their door program is great, just seems to me like they are still trying to dial things in on the window side.

Lastly, add some weight here on the side of the installation dealer. The install methods, reputation, and history of the company can easily swing this one way or the other. All of our comments have pretty much been on product only if all else is equal, but in the real world it never is.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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What problems are they having with the Provia?
Did the dealers drop the line because of these problems?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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toddinmn wrote:
What problems are they having with the Provia?
Did the dealers drop the line because of these problems?


Various qc issues where a lot of replacement service parts were needed. I know of one VERY large dealer that made the switch and then switched back to their previous product. That is not an easy transition for a high volume company... and to clarify, I LIKE Provia as a company, and I think their new window lines show some promise as well. Just seems like they are still ironing out the kinks on the window side of things. I've actually looked at the Aeris as a possibility for people in need of a real wood interior with a good price-point and factory finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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That is to bad, were these teething problems when they first came or was it ongoing for awhile. Just curious since awl window I use is based in the same extrusion and has been problem free so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:29 am 
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I don't think anyone knows for certain, but you are bound to have some issues when a what is a primarily door company starts making windows.

Clearly they understand the logistics of stuff, but I think some of the problems stemmed from the more complex units and shapes.

I have heard the same grumblings as has HomeSealed.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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The platform that ProVia is utilizing is a brother/sister platform that quite a few manufacturers are embracing. It has a many positives and few really stupid design issues that have shown me that the design engineers haver never spent much time in the field actually working with the folks that do this for a living.

ProVia has the nicest brochures and great ordering software as they know how to run a business with their longstanding reputations in the door manufacturing industry. We have been doing the ProVia products for years and for what they want for this product price wise, it seems like they just knocked a 450' 2nd deck drive to right field in the bottom of the 9th that wound up on the wrong side of the yellow line.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:33 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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What are the stupid design features?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows in SE MI
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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Sash extrusions have the interior decorative bead profile to the area that meets the glass. Nice, but weld flash is a little harder to clean out and the top and bottom lift rails can't feature that bead and is different. You wind up with welded 45-degree miters that don't marry up correctly in appearance and feel.

Bottom sash jamb track has that typically lower end dated snap in sash stop at the side/top corners of the jambs as opposed to a continuous balance cover. Other manufacturers are picking balances that work with a balance cover that eliminates this snap in sash stop that in my opinion cheapens the interior look of the window. Bottom sash interlock fuzzy cheater pads with glue on the back of them. Exterior white glazing durometer silicon based that will turn color over the years as opposed to internal water seal or opting for dark gray or black color like OKNA or Sunrise.

Extrusion utility/accessory groove that's half the face width and more shallow that what Soft-Lite, Sunrise, and OKNA have in their designs which is much more ideal for terminating capping returns into for exterior stop removal retrofits with spray foam. I can cap into theirs, but knife scored and cut metal or hemmed metal can't get in there. One has to have a factory cut and metal bending is taken to very precise dimensions so that it fully secured into this groove.


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