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 Post subject: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:27 pm
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Help I live in St. Paul Mn and looking to replace 13 windows and 2 patio doors and I keep getting quotes in 20s. Softlite 25k (insert), the rest full frame parco 22k, Lindsay pinnacle 20k, Berkshire elite 22k, richlin 20k. Champion 29k, thermo-tech 20k. They all seem really expensive any advice. Are any of these decent enough for this amount of money.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 4349
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Can you give any more specifications on the window?

Color, model, grids, glazing layers, laminates, etc.?

Windows can definitely get expensive once you start loading them up with options.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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Don't forget to add installation details. Full frames installs can get expensive. Not knowing any details it seams on the higher side.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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If you have gotten 7 quotes, I think that you've answered your own questions as far as whether $20k+ is reasonable. Assuming that these are from reputable installers, that seems to be the going rate. Pricing can vary wildly depending on market and installation specifics, that's why the best thing that you can do as a consumer if you are wondering if a price is in line is to get comparable quotes... I'm guessing based on the qtys, that you have some upgrades to the products and/or installation.

As far as the products themselves, some of them are definitely better than others, but the exact model and glass package would be needed too. I'd highly recommend familiarizing yourself with performance ratings so that you can compare accordingly. For instance, some of the windows that you are looking at would require multiple surfaces of low-e, and/or an interior (touchable) surface 4 coat. The wrong glass will yield a shgc that is too low for MN (blocks too much heat given that your furnace runs a lot more than your AC), and/or drastically reduced condensation resistance. Being in a similar climate myself, you do NOT want that. These "tricks" take an average or worse window, and get the U value to a rating that is on par with superior choices (and Energy Star for that matter at .27). however not without significant and detrimental side effects. Kinda like one of those TV commercials for pharmaceuticals where a treatment for mild acne can cause explosive diarrhea, depression, and death...

Beyond making sure the thermal numbers are appropriate for your climate, you will want to look at the structural ratings as well, air leakage/infiltration is the big one, and design pressure is a good indicator as well.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Well said HomeSealed.

I quite missed that point you just made. You have an array of quote and they are all +/- 10% (get rid of Champion as they are a really good choice anyway) of the median number. That more than validates the numbers you have gotten at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:27 pm
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Soft lite is replacement inserts. It is their elements line with foam filled, ultra s triple pane low e u factor .19, shgc.24, vt.40, condensation 71, air infiltration .01 cfm. I'm worried about them being purchased by Harvey building in 2016.

Richlin window 900 series built by hayfield full frame new casings, foam filled low e argon. U value .26, shgc .35, vt .52, cr 62, air infiltration .03. And costs 5k less than soft lite. Not much known about this company.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:11 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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The Richlin is a nice window, I would have no problem with that.
I think it would make more sense to get bids comparing triple pane to triple pane and full frame to full frame.
I would say the Richlin is the better deal on paper since a full frame install is a bit more complex and more expensive in time and materials.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Based on the similar performance specs, I think you are hard pressed to justify the additional investment.

This assumes that the companies are of similar quality on the installation end of the equation.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:10 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1669
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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The cost difference between full tear and insert in my area is ~ $250 per window. That normally does not include the painting of the primed only interior trim.
Thus the SL quote seems like a real outlier, inserts at 3k more than full tears.
I like the full tears as they give the best finished product, albeit with normally additional cost.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:47 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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I guess I missed this one earlier. I did a lot of research back in the day when I chose Richlin as my in house line of Windows. Hayfield really engineered a great quality window when they developed the Richlin line. The engineering department brought on highly skilled installers and service professionals to help remove all the design flaws and failures we see over the years. They also improved on the areas that we fixed in the field regularly.
After that was done they improved the overall physical appearance with more eye appealing extrusions. The softened the old square look with curved corners and better looks.

I put a lot of their windows in over the years. I never got a defective product from them ever. No failures to this day. I have these windows in my own home! I'd put them up against anyone out there. Bottom line is they must be installed properly! I don't care what window you buy. If it's not installed properly it's junk.

I specialized in making the Twin Cities historical homes as energy efficient as possible without loosing their historical looks. We never had an unhappy customer. We took great pride in going above and beyond our expectations any customer would have. My success was built with smiles and speechless customers. I'm out
Go Richlin!!!


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:14 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:56 am
Posts: 2
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True that!


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 Post subject: Re: St. Paul window replacement
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:59 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 666
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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MaryCordle wrote:
True that!


Mary
You took the time to sign up to this forum at 2 am in the morning just to say " true that"???
Cant wait to see your spam.


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