egress and normal casements

For all those Replacement Window questions
Message
Author
jheissjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:39 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

egress and normal casements

#1 Post by jheissjr » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:34 am

I’m familiar with normal hinged casements but I have never operated an egress casement. A benefit of an egress is a full, unobstructed view. Operation of the sash and pulling the sash in is something I can’t pinpoint comparing the two from pictures. Casements sometimes require pushing the sash out by hand or tightening the operator hard to pull in if there is house settlement after install. Are they both forgiving if the RO shifts over time? Does either style operate more smoothly in a general case?

When meeting code and cleaning is removed from the comparison, are there any subtle things to consider between the two styles?
Last edited by jheissjr on Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#2 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:33 pm

Egress casement just indicates (in most applications) that the hinge articulates on the jamb side.

It has no bearing on long term durability or operation. If the home moves enough to throw off an egress casement operation, it would also impact a standard casement.

TheWindowNerd
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#3 Post by TheWindowNerd » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:27 am

Egress is specific clear opening for fire protection coding.

I think though you might be asking the difference between inswing vs outswing casements.
The norm in my neck of the woods is outswing, can't remember installing an inswing casement in the last 35 years.
Both would react to settlement about the same. Not to much of an issue if your house is not new.
One subtle observation: what do you do for window treatments, inswing units require more thought on how to clear the opening for operation. Also sash projecting in or out of the building are obstacles that can be run into.

theWindowNerd.

Guy
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#4 Post by Guy » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:29 pm

Egress Windows are windows which meet a specific glass opening size for access by Firefighters and Emergency Services. The clear opening space must meet code. I think it's 5.1 sq ft at ground level. Since the standard casement windows normal pivot hardware doesn't clear the sash out of the clear opening site they use what we call "Swing Clear" hardware. Usually you get the larger window to save that extra $300.00 they charge for the new hardware. In most cases we never sell a window with that hardware unless it's required to meet Egress Code. It's a huge cost to eat unless you have no other choice. Your cranking mechanism works the same as anything you've had before. The only difference you would ever encounter is a unit with extra heavy glass units. Then youll only feel it when your cranking the window closed from the fully open position. Might require an extra hard crank to get it started.
Hope this makes sense. Good Luck!!!

TheWindowNerd
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#5 Post by TheWindowNerd » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:49 pm

Still not clear what the OP was asking about.

Casements have more difficulty meeting egress due to the clear opening width required.
Some units will meet the width requirement with a frame size of 29" with standard hardware.

jheissjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:39 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: engress and normal casements

#6 Post by jheissjr » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:13 am

I’m the OP, I didn’t do a very good job with the question. I’m attempting to ask, in a situation where egress is not required but egress can still be installed, are there any benefits to egress that it would merit it over a normal casement? For larger, heavier casements, does one handle a heavier sash better?
Last edited by jheissjr on Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guy
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#7 Post by Guy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:36 pm

It's not even close to being worth it. Adding all that specialty hardware for a unit that's not required to have it. Hell no! Take that extra money and upgrade your IGU's. That would be worth the investment!

TheWindowNerd
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#8 Post by TheWindowNerd » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:46 pm

I would not add egress hardware unless required.
But there are some casements that meet egress based on their size and clear opening with standard hardware. For example AW 400 casement CW135 or larger all meet egress( 5.7) or Pella Proline 2947 or larger.

theWindowNerd.

jheissjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:39 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: engress and normal casements

#9 Post by jheissjr » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:19 pm

I believed the hardware between an egress and normal casement, that is the operator and slide, were not far apart. The installer in this video changes the casement to an egress by swapping out the slider and operator. Do the new parts he installs cost more than the parts he removes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJfTTG_VdbI
Last edited by jheissjr on Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

toddinmn
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am

Re: engress and normal casements

#10 Post by toddinmn » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:58 pm

I did all my casement windows with egress hardware. I prefer the clear opening when they are opened. There was no addition fee for the hardware for the brand I used. I would price it out and make your decision. Never heard anyone charging $300 for egress hardware , that is just ridiculous.

TheWindowNerd
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#11 Post by TheWindowNerd » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:18 am

Todd,
Hadn't thought about the unobstructed view. An end pivot does provide that.
I wonder if there is any difference in force required to crank at various travel points.

jheissjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:39 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: engress and normal casements

#12 Post by jheissjr » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:59 am

I wonder if there is any difference in force required to crank at various travel points.
From pictures, it looks like the slash on an egress slides a much smaller distance in the slider than a normal casement. Remember the whole weight of the sash rests on a small 1/2" piece of plastic that slides on metal each time the window opens and closes. I suspect less wear and tear occurs on egress hinges and hardware since an egress slash has a smaller distance to travel in the slide for each open and close.

However, sliding distance is unrelated to force required to operate the crank. I never operated an egress and I would like to know how cranking an egress compares with a normal casement. Needs more force, rougher, smoother, no difference?
Last edited by jheissjr on Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

toddinmn
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am

Re: engress and normal casements

#13 Post by toddinmn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:17 am

I have not noticed any difference.

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Contact:

Re: engress and normal casements

#14 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:38 am

In my experience there's not a huge difference in operation effort or reliability. While the hardware may travel less on an egress equipped unit, it also shifts the weight load more sharply on the hardware. Again, I haven't seen many issues or failures either way, but I also haven't installed windows with egress hardware that see ordinary usage. Todd's experience might be the most insightful from that perspective....

Ultimately, I don't think I would decide one way or the other due to the perception that one is much more reliable, and if anything I might trend toward the standard option on that if for no other reason than knowing that manufacturers would prefer to sell options that have fewer service issues. Keep in mind that most casements with standard hardware will allow for an normal sized arm to slide through when opened fully, facilitating cleaning from the interior.

toddinmn
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am

Re: engress and normal casements

#15 Post by toddinmn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Mine will be a good test since they are all triple pane, some 36"x60"

Post Reply