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 Post subject: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:53 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:37 pm
Posts: 19
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As you can see from my other posts, I'm seriously considering Okna Windows instead of Marvin. We have so many windows to do that we're trying to do them in phases, but also we have two sliding glass/French doors and two entry doors (main entry, entry to in law apartment). The first phase is windows and maybe French doors, depending on the quote.

The next phase is entry door/in law door. Does anyone know of a forum to ask questions regarding entry doors. We're currently looking at Provia and ThermaTru, but it's like windows....so many options and it's not easy to compare. For instance, my limited understanding is that Provia makes the entire door system (comes as a unit), but ThermaTru only makes the slabs, and have to be built into a door system. Is this true? I also really like Provia's top end door, but the person we came to quote it and windows went radio silence after we sent options for the two top lines of Provia. So, I have no idea what they'd cost.

We're looking for (front, main door) painted surface applied at factory on both sides, two side lights, fiberglass, smooth but could have a wood grain (Provia's top line has wood grain only but you can get it painted). We currently have full glass in the door and side lights but might go 3/4 or 1/2 glass.

For the in-law, we're looking for one of the cheaper fiberglass doors, with a smaller window.

If this is not the place for door questions, does anyone know of a forum for these questions? I searched and can find some questions about these doors, but no actual forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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You're at the right place (forum). Doors and windows run hand in hand. Most of us will not comment on pricing as the seller's business model and overhead along with the amount of repair or finish work dictates the final pricing.

I can't see the benefit of a Signet over a smooth Heritage series door unless it's the actual door slab or SDL's not offered on the Heritage series since you desire it to be painted and not stained.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:10 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:37 pm
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Thank you. I'm talking ballpark, for instance, are these doors 2k, 5k, 10k? What's the approximate price difference between an Embarq door with similar features to a Signet door? I have no problem with contractors making a living and pricing according to their needs, but when I want even ANY price info, I can't get it unless I call multiple contractors and have them out. And half the time they never respond after coming out.

To me, the Embarq is a great door, double seals, very thick, well insulated, thermal break, excellent sealing, see:

https://www.provia.com/entry-doors/embarq
https://www.provia.com/entry-doors/embarq-features

Compare with the Signet:

https://www.provia.com/entry-doors/sign ... s-features

Also, the glass options are much more energy efficient with the Embarq, at least in the style we want.

But are we talking 2k difference, 1k difference, 5k difference between the doors? You can go to the Provia site, download an app, and set up the doors, so we have saved two door models in Embarq and in Signet, but have literally NO IDEA what the costs might be. I'm talking ballpark costs, so we can figure out if these are even options given our budget. I'd even take MSRP, which I know is completely BS, but at least that would give us a clue. Right now, without calling out yet another contractor, we can't get that. And if we can't afford the door, I'd rather not call out a contractor and waste their time.

See the issue?

On the other hand, I have quotes for ThermaTru doors, but the contractor/dealer I'm using wraps these into the "entire package", which includes windows, and none of them are individually broken out. So, again, I have no idea what the actual doors cost and can't do any price comparison.

Again, see the issue?

I'm an engineer who loves data and good design, and I'm not going to buy something that I think is inferior. But I can't even figure out what the freak the costs are -- even ballpark-- and I don't think that's right. I'm spending hours of my own time trying to determine ballpark prices, and it's got me quite irked, and now I have to contact yet another contractor to come out to the house, so I can simply GET A PRICE. That's all I want.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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Oh Snap! You're talking Embarq, didn't realize that. I've not had the pleasure of even pricing one of these out yet as they're very high-end. I would have to mock build up a door to every specification that you are desiring to even see the list on that door.

Since my operation is small, I'm able to itemize doors from window and even itemize the labor when needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:56 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 668
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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Ctbiggen1
We cannot comment on price because there are far too many variables involved and it would be unfair to your contractor for any of us to take a guess. If prices are eggregiously high or low then we would make a comment.
No one breaks down price of material and labor because most are authorized dealers and sell as a package. Also, its kind of intrusive to ask someone how much they are making. Calling a bunch of contractors with the hopes of one divulging his personal income will be a avery rare occurrence. . At some point you have to be more concerned with getting a solid product and a professional installation.
If you like the door and the have confidence in your contractor, you are in good shape.
Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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+1 to the previous commenters.

Impossible to really comment on price from market to market.

The Embarq is a nice product and seems to be well engineered.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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oh snap! lol...

We'd love to help ct, but doors may actually be the most difficult thing. A window range might vary by a few hundred dollars, but for doors it can be thousands. Let me give you an example: I quoted a client on a provia entry heritage with designer glass the other day. Price came out a bit higher than I expected, I though maybe something was wrong with my app. I then ran the quote for the same exact door design just with a different designer glass, and it was $2000 less! That is $2000 difference on the same door through the same company, with glass that actually looked pretty similar. Throw in variables as mentioned above of market, business model, overhead, etc and its VERY difficult to nail down a range on doors. Sidelites are deceptively pricey as well....

For reference, I attributed the price difference to one glass package being an "in-house" provia option, and the other was one of the few that they still outsource.

Lastly, on doors, Provia is a great door company. Albany makes some nice stuff, Homeguard has a gorgeous stain finish, but I have other issues with them. Thermatru is a toss up, due to the fact that they are "finished" by a third party. Final quality has everything to do with how good that company happens to be. I've dealt with three in my market alone with some pretty drastic differences. I have a hard time recommending them for that reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:11 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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We love doing doors too.
For price I like the TT lines. The down side is less customization. They will do cut down heights and most markets have fabricators that do some good prefinish.
Provia, Homeguard, HMI all are custom door companies. More custom, more options more cost.
I agree with HomeSealed that the QC on TT doors can vary widely due the the fabricator.

Personally I think you should be able to get the door, supplied and installed, quoted as a line item, even if they want to offer you a package price.

theWindowNerd.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 668
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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Another way to do it is to say the door costs 5k and the install will only cost 10 bucks..would that make the OP happier???
Package deal is the most common


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 449
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I do not separate materials and labor on my bids, but one should be able to price a door separately or even each line item separately.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to ask questions about entry doors (Provia versus...)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:23 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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I thought the OP was asking for the door quote as supplied and installed to be broken out, a line item, from the window quote.
Not door materials, labor, MU, etc.


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