Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

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econchic
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Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#1 Post by econchic » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:43 pm

Hello,
I am replacing about 30 windows that are over 30 years old. I am doing white on the inside and bronze on the outside, single hung. No grids except perhaps on the front. I have many tall but fairly narrow (<36inches) windows.

My quotes for NT and Sunrise were about the same, near $30K. I did get a cheaper quote for NT from someone else, but for several reasons I don't feel comfortable with that person.

I realize a drawback of Sunrise is the lack of reinforcement in the sash. I have also come to learn that given my two-tone request any grids must be SDL and that there are limited grid pattern choices for my large eyebrow windows (no curves).

According to NT, there are no limitations to the grid patterns and I can do internal two-tone grids. I do like the look of SDL but of course they are more expensive.

Most of my reading indicates that Sunrise is a better window overall, and I know it's considered a good-looking fairly slimline window.

However, I have read some of Randy's comments indicating that NT is pretty good. Thoughts?

Also, NT wants to use clear caulk, while Sunrise has bronze caulk to match the window. Which is better?

There's no Okna or Softlite in the area.

randy
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#2 Post by randy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:11 pm

NT is a decent mid-grade vinyl window, but it’s not in the same league with Sunrise, Soft-lite, Okna and the other premium grade vinyl windows. I would always recommend one of the premium grades, if it fits in the budget, because they are far more selective in choosing who can sell and install their windows and that provides a piece of mind that you can’t get with manufacturers who sell to any contractor who can pay for them without their check bouncing. Premium manufacturers have tighter manufacturing tolerances which results in a lower Air Leakage ratings, without taking short-cuts and using fuzzy pads at the corners. Sunrise is also the better company to deal with in terms of warranty issues, in my experience.

As to the reinforcement, I always recommend it if you can get it. But at least your windows are all fairly narrow. In this case, with both windows being priced so close, I’d go with the Sunrise (contractor reputation and installation details being comparable).

I understand the frustration on the lack of arches in SDL’s as I’m working with a customer right now on the same issue in Okna windows.

toddinmn
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#3 Post by toddinmn » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:15 pm

I'm not a fan of the Sunrise for reason you mentioned and I'd consider 36" on the larger size. I am not familiar with NT. Single Hungs and not doubles?
Really not a fan of clear caulk or silicone unless I'm caulking in glass block. I often use 2 different colors of caulk but almost never clear.

econchic
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#4 Post by econchic » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:18 pm

Thank you very much!!

I did see that Zen windows sells Soft-Lite in DFW, so I am enquiring with them. If that doesn't work out, I will go with Sunrise.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#5 Post by HomeSealed » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:39 pm

Softlite makes a great window in their higher end (Elements, LS), but unfortunately that particular dealer tops out at the Pro, which is an aged design. You could do worse, but that product does not reflect the top performing reputation that SL has due to the other two products... Frankly I have my own reservations about the long term sustainability of that dealer/franchise as well, but that is just my personal opinion.

If you can find the higher end SL, Okna, or Sunrise, you would be better served, especially in what some may consider an extreme climate... Perhaps randy has a referral in DFW?

econchic
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#6 Post by econchic » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:07 pm

Thank you HomeSealed. Apparently there is no other Soft-Lite and no Okna. There are higher end Sunrise windows, but I am not sure I want to spend much more. My Sunrise quote does include the foam filling upgrade.
Last edited by econchic on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

toddinmn
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#7 Post by toddinmn » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:27 pm

I am also not a fan of Zen, but I would take the Pro over the Sunrise.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#8 Post by Windows on Washington » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:01 am

+1.

Especially over a brick sills. The rumor is the Sunrise sill tends to buckle over any out of shape substrates.

toddinmn
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#9 Post by toddinmn » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:09 pm

I have seen there sash bow enough times as well.
The sashes and frames should come reinforced all the way around IMO.

econchic
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#10 Post by econchic » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:22 pm

Thanks for the input.

I don't have access to Sunrise Vanguard, only Restorations from a place that I hear is very expensive. I am going to call Sunrise and see if they will sell my guy the Vanguard. Maybe that is hopeless, but I did call them before and they were helpful.

I can't get Softlite in single-hungs except for their low end line, and it doesn't make sense to get doubles with my tall and relatively narrow windows.

toddinmn
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#11 Post by toddinmn » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:26 pm

Tall and narrow Windows sound like a good candidate for double Hungs to me.
How about Don Young Windows anyone? Don't know if they are available there.

econchic
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#12 Post by econchic » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:32 pm

Hmm, haven't looked into Don Young around here.

Everyone who came and looked at my windows recommended single hung for my 96" tall windows. Said the double hung would be too unwieldy for such tall windows.

toddinmn
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#13 Post by toddinmn » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:14 pm

They can get hard to manage if you pull them all the way out to clean. I would only tilt the Windows in to clean without removing them from there pivots. Usually raise the lower sash about 4" till it in and let it rest against the stool or maybe the floor , then lower the upper sash about 8" from the bottom tilt it in and rest against my leg or on top my beer gut and clean that one , tilt it back in and raise it back up then clean the lower in the same fashion. Fast and easy and no ladders. Most single Hungs are priced pretty close to doubles if they are the same brand and line.

randy
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#14 Post by randy » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:15 pm

Don Young is based in Dallas, so they are readily available.

Here’s the bottom line for me. It’s easy to criticize Sunrise, and yes their sill is flimsier than I’d prefer. But that can be somewhat overcome by a good installer who knows how to shim properly and uses spray foam around the perimeter. It will take more time to be sure, but it’s manageable, particularly on 36” wide single or double hungs. That’s relatively narrow to anyone who’s familiar with window sizes in Texas. I don’t care for the glazing bead doubling as the lift rail either, but it is what it is. Fact of the matter, is Texas homeowners hardly ever open their windows anyway, so it will probably never become an issue.

In the northeast (where almost every pro on this board in located) you get the luxury of choosing between the top-tier window brands. In the south, the selection is much narrower, and unless Todd knows something I don’t, Sunrise outperforms Don Young’s vinyl window in almost every way. In fact, I’d take Sunrise over any of the brands mentioned so far. If Okna were available in DFW, I’d recommend it. But it’s not. If Soft-lite Elements or Imperial LS were available, I’d recommend those. But they’re not. Polaris? Nope. Kensington? Not that I’m aware of.

So yes, Sunrise windows need a more rigid sill and a lift rail that is an extruded part of the sash. Heavier sashes would be nice as well. But when you take the negatives and the positives and compare them to every other brand that is available in DFW, I’ll take Sunrise any day. Additionally, when it comes to customer service, warranty service, etc.... Sunrise stands heads and shoulders over 98% of the manufacturers that I’ve dealt with over my 22 years in business.

I do agree on going with single hungs over double hungs for those tall units. The top sashes would be very difficult to tilt inward, and you would probably experience sash drift every time you open the bottom sash.

Feel free to call email me direct if you would like to discuss your options - info@ultrawindows.net

econchic
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Re: Sunrise or NT Presidential in Dallas area

#15 Post by econchic » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:07 pm

Thank you Randy, and all, for taking the time to provide valuable information. I really appreciate it!

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