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 Post subject: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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First, we desperately need to replace our rotting 20 year old Masonite siding w/ 16 squares of Hardboard but we also have 20 year old builder-grade double-pane aluminum windows.

On this cold winter Texas day it is 40F outside and we can feel the cold air conducting and infiltrating through the old windows. Only two windows have clouded - both on SW sunny side of house. They are ugly.

We met with 6 different siding contractors from the top rated companies and got a good prices on siding and narrowed things down to 3 contractors. I was thinking of doing the windows a year or two from now, but the siding companies claim it is best to do the windows at the same time. Thus, i began to ask them for window quotes, plus got some quotes from companies that don't do siding. Here are my options:

Vendor #1: (current top choice as he has great siding and window reviews on yelp, Angie's list and Google)
Full job - 17 NT Window Executive Series, $8950 for windows, $11,000 siding/painting.
Sizes:
Front inside brick
5 3050 single hung with grid
Front in siding currently double 3050 with grid, but would prefer 6050 horizontal slider instead with grid
Left in brick
2030 single hung
Left in siding
1050 single hung (claims it is only available as a picture window)
3030 single hung
Rear in brick
3 5050 sliders
Rear in siding
2 5050 sliders
4040 tempered slider
Right Siding -
5040 slider with best low-e as this is southwest facing with no shade
Right Brick
6050 slider (no grid) with best low-e as this is southwest facing with no shade

Replace the 7 windows surrounded by siding for $4260 plus same $11,000 for siding. Says he would order fins to improve install on these. I worry this would make huge hot/cold spots as some rooms would have all windows replaced and others none.

Siding only for $11,000, he won't do just the 2 windows w/ broken seals.

Vendor 2: (concerned about his knowledge of code, city of Round Rock outside Austin) but has good reviews on siding especially):
Option #1: Windows 13,000 (Simonton - line not specified) siding $11,000. This vendor told me code required casement windows for bedrooms with 3050 window, but my reading of code says since it is surrounded by brick and replacing current single hung i would need casement. He says glass area must be 5.7 square feet or more, but i told him i read it was the space when opened, not the glass area.
Option #2: Replace two broken windows with new thermal separated Don Young Aluminum sliders, same $11,000 siding but waiting on window quote. These might match look of the old 15 remaining aluminum windows.

Vendor #3 - Good reputation, most professional and gave good bid on siding for $11,760. $12,510 for Simonton (again no details). He is willing to do just 2 windows but wants to remeasure to quote and to show me options. At time he was out originally, we were not thinking about window replacements.

Vendor #4 - only does windows and quoted via web/email. Got quote for $8200 for 17 Berkshire Elite sliders and double hung. install would be done and project managed by local Alside rep. i was referred to Alside showroom to view windows. I would have to manage timing of window and siding contractors.

Vendor #5 - replace the 3 glass units with broken seals for $900 in existing 20 year old Windows, would get 10 year parts/labor on replaced glass, then using siding vendor of choice.

Long post, here is my question. is there any reason to go with #4 - the savings seems like it is not worth the hassle of managing two companies. Is the install that much better when installing Hardboard at the same time? How does NT compare with Berkshire Elite and with Simonton? Am I missing any other options or gotchas?


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Short answer...nope.

I think you go with your gut on this and if you are presented with the option of doing the windows and siding at the same time and have a company that can manage both processes...that is your best option.

Thermally broken aluminum is totally fine in the Texas climate and does quite well. I think you are on a better track with option 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 999
Location: Houston, TX
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I agree with WoW. Best to use one contractor for both projects when possible. If you go with two contractors, they need to work together on timing so that the window contractor can cut the siding back and install with a nailing fin, with the siding contractor coming right behind him. Then you have to determine who is going to install the drip caps, tape the flanges, etc.... One contractor makes all of this simple.

I would never recommend any Alside products. NT make a decent vinyl window and Don Young’s thermally-broken aluminum window is a great choice as well.

As to the code requirement on egress, it has nothing to do with the glass, it’s based on the opening space (as you understood).


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 467
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That's great wisdom.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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Thanks all.

Just spoke to vendor #3. He is quoting Simonton Platinum. He originally quoted for most of the windows to come w/ grids and double hung. He is going to requote it with single and grids only in the front. Hoping he can get closer in price.

Randy as you know NT, what are the quality or functional differences between the NT Executive and Simonton Platinum? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 999
Location: Houston, TX
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NT comes standard with sash reinforcement which is highly recommended here in Texas. NT is about ½” narrower from edge of frame to edge of glass which is nice.

Simonton does not offer reinforcement as a standard feature, it’s an option that must be added for an additional charge.

Simonton was recently purchased by PlyGem, a window company with a less than stellar reputation in the industry. That doesn’t bode well for Simonton in my opinion, but time will tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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Thanks Randy. I am definitely leaning on the NT. As a Texan, i like things made here. Does the execututive have anything worth upgrading to? The NT website has info about "Suntuative" glass that darkens when warm and lightens when cool. it sounds like a good idea for my big southwest facing windows but the site doesn't mention about on what line it is available. SHGC goes from .12 at 150F to .31 at around 40F.

Also, have you ever heard of Ringer Window? They seem like well made windows - the factory is 10 miles from me and convenient to my favorite BBQ place.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 999
Location: Houston, TX
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I don’t think there are any worthwhile upgrades to the Executive. I’ve seen a demo of the Suntuative glass a while back, but haven’t heard much about it since. Sorry I can’t help you on that.

I’ve heard of Ringer windows, but don’t know anything about them. However, being close to a good barbecue restaurant is always a plus!


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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Thought of another question, the current window in the laundry room is a 1050 single hung. All of the proposed replacements are picture windows. I am wondering if I could get that size in any new window as a single hung, or if i should just keep the existing window, or something else. I guess another option is widen the opening for a different size. The dryer vents out so i am not sure i need an opening window, or maybe that is more reason to have one?


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 999
Location: Houston, TX
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NT’s minimum width for a single hung is 13”. You could replace it with a casement, if you want to be able to open the window. There is no code requirement, that I’m aware of, requiring an operable window in the laundry room


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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I noticed Vendor #3 was quoting double hung w/ grids throughout the whole house and asked him to change do grids on front only and rerun the quote with a single hung option. He came back with quotes of $9665 for single-hung Simonton perfection or pro finish (said they are the same). Removing grids of the double hung quote dropped it to $11,800.

I asked for the NFRC #'s for the single-hung as they seem to be available in different glass strength, gases, low-e options, etc. i am getting more worried about his lack of info. The Simonton Pro Finish seems to have a huge performance range from low to high. Not finding any info on the Perfection. i suspect he meant Reflection. If he doesn't provide me the NFRC info or more details, i am going elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:20 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 999
Location: Houston, TX
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PerfeXion is the line that is made specifically for ABC Supply. It’s a new name and it’s taking the place of the old Prism Gold, Prism Platinum, etc....


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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So i got a quote for Don Young windows. They are quoting 16 vinyl sliders and single hungs plus one aluminum picture windows (1 ft wide) for the same price as the 17 NT Executive quote. Warranties and performance seem about the same. However, the siding work is $1900 more. I am not finding any good pictures/videos of the NT Window Executive. I saw a sample of one a month ago. Does any have a good picture of the NT Window? In a 8 year old youtube video it looks kind of bulky but I am suspecting they update it from time to time and keep the name? Thoughts? The NT sliders are dual operating. Any thoughts on those?


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:19 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 999
Location: Houston, TX
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I don’t think the NT Executive has changed at all, with respect to the size of the frame and sashes.

While I am a big fan of Don Young’s thermally-broken aluminum windows for south Texas homeowners, I do not feel the same about their vinyl offerings. NT is a better choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Whole house or partial house replacement.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm
Posts: 10
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So I picked the vendor with the NT quote contingent on answering some questions satisfactorily. The question that missed was this:

1) Will these meet egress requirements (the actual measurements of the current opening is 35 1/8 by 59 1/8) - E110 - EXECUTIVE SERIES VINYL SINGLE HUNG WINDOW - 3050 5 TRADITIONAL COLONIAL LITE PATTERN= FLAT GRIDS, WHITE

I was told it will NOT meet egress for an upstairs bedroom. These windows are going to be installed into brick. Would the Don Young's met egress or some other brand in that size? I am not too worried about the town's building inspectors but more so future home inspectors if i go to sell.


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