Provia vs Sunrise

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crazyascarl
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Provia vs Sunrise

#1 Post by crazyascarl » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:09 pm

Newbie here... loved reading all the posts, but could use a bit more specific insight....

I'm looking to replace 25 windows in my old Denver house. I've done my due diligence and gotten bids from various, well reviewed, installers who are all pushing their partner brands-- Milgard (Tuscany), Simonton (5500), Amerimax (Craftsman), Provia (Endure) and Sunrise ("Premium"... an in house line supposedly with various components of the Vanguard, Restoration and Verde lines).

I'm not impressed by the Milgard or Simonton. A few years ago I installed Amerimax in my basement and think they're fine but I am particularly intrigued by the Provia and Sunrise for this project, which sound like a "step up" from the other lines.

Wondering everybody's thoughts on these two windows. The Sunrise is coming in a bit more expensive, but not enough to truly make or break the decision... particularly because (ideally) these are an investment and (hopefully) will last for years/decades

Thanks for your insight!!

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#2 Post by Windows on Washington » Tue May 01, 2018 12:07 am

Both are quality companies.

Sunrise has been doing vinyl window for a lot longer, but I am not sure that has bearing any longer given innovation.

I haven't seen the Endure in a while and I haven't used it personally so I can't comment on that comparison. What I do know is that you probably can't go wrong with either.

How did the companies compare?

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#3 Post by masterext » Tue May 01, 2018 7:32 am

I have seen both and i think sunrise make a nicer window. Historically, provia is a door company whereas sunrise was always a window company. Not that this should sway you in one way or another since expanding a door business into windows is not that big of a transition, opposed to a T-shirt company getting into window manufacturing.

toddinmn
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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#4 Post by toddinmn » Tue May 01, 2018 10:43 am

I would take the ProVia hands down if these are double hungs. The Sunrise is underbuilt/poorly designed IMO.

crazyascarl
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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#5 Post by crazyascarl » Tue May 01, 2018 11:01 am

Todd, from skimming your previous posts, you seem to be very anti-Sunrise. Why is that? The only negative thing I've read about them (short of installer issues) is that a few people have had larger frames sag. None of my windows are over a few feet wide and at least one local company (the one I have a bid from) defaults to their fiberglass reinforced frames.

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#6 Post by toddinmn » Tue May 01, 2018 1:02 pm

I think the frame is flimsy as well as the sashes. Reinforcement is only on the meeting rails , which does prevent the sashes from sag anywhere else. Do not like the lift rail incorporated with glazing bead, do not like the lack of interlock at the meeting rails. I don’t think there air infiltration numbers would ever be met or hold up, and don’t think they should get the price tag that typically goes along with them.This applies only to the double hungs and sliders, I have no experience with there casements.
To be fair I have no direct experience with the Pro-Via, but I am familiar with another window based on the same platform though. I would take my chances on it if my other option is Sunrise.

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#7 Post by masterext » Tue May 01, 2018 3:13 pm

I have a friend that loves the way the restoration by sunrise installs. He hasnt had any issues as of yet.
It comes down to preference. I do know the restorations is nicer looking.

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#8 Post by toddinmn » Tue May 01, 2018 5:09 pm

The way they install could be perceived as issue or just minor nuisance, it’s a matter of perspective. I really have no problem screwing down a sill, the real headache for me is the service calls for sagging sashes, or lift rails popping out. If I didn’t install th that’s great , I either make money on the service work or just replacing them like I did with my last encounter with them.

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#9 Post by masterext » Wed May 02, 2018 6:48 am

Fair enough. Was that on the restorations specifically and was it on every window?

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#10 Post by Windows on Washington » Wed May 02, 2018 7:19 am

That is the rub that I hear from installers as well.

The frame is extremely sensitive to installation and sill inconsistencies. Jobs over a bit weeping mortar are supposedly a PITB.

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#11 Post by toddinmn » Wed May 02, 2018 12:17 pm

Not sure which one it is , but. I can’t see them being much different since they all use the same frame and sashes I believe. I think the only difference would be the restoration would be less prone to sagging at the meeting rails on the sashes which does not prevent the other areas of sashes sagging. The last job had bowed sills despite being screwed down on the larger Windows in 3 places.

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#12 Post by crazyascarl » Fri May 11, 2018 10:39 am

Okay so all the bids are in and now I"m having trouble making a decision....

Replacing 25 windows, 21 double hung, 4 casement, all with aluminum coil. It's a 1918 house so there is likely lead remediation required

Installer 1: Solid all around company.
Sunrise Vanguard: $20,200 (+300 if lead)

Installer 2: Probably the best reviews of the bunch
Sunrise Verde: $17,700 (+1150 if lead)

Installer 3: CS has been crappy (it's been difficult to get them to tell me what lines they installs... they just told me "it's their best line" over and over again) but I've seen their installs and they do go work.
Provia Endure: $17,500
Sunrise Standard: $16,500 (+800 if lead)

Installer 4: Has good reviews online, the owner/bidder didn't instill much faith (a lot of my windows have the sash 2/3rds of the way up and he claimed having it higher would make aligning the grids difficult... which makes no sense to me. He also claimed he could see there was lead in the paint by looking at it).
An in-house Sunrise line: $18,600 (+1250 if lead)
(Includes insulated frames, fiberglass reinforcement, optiview screen, and S2210 glass without argon.

Interesting twist-- I got a phone call from installer 4 that they are in communication with Sunrise to become a Restoration dealer. They should know in the next week. Installer 1 said there isn't much difference between the Vanguard and Restoration, but I haven't looked into Restoration much yet.

Love to know your thoughts. Thanks
Last edited by crazyascarl on Fri May 11, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

randy
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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#13 Post by randy » Fri May 11, 2018 12:33 pm

The Verde is equal to the Vanguard, therefore, #2 would be a good choice (assuming the installation is well done).

crazyascarl
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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#14 Post by crazyascarl » Fri May 11, 2018 2:14 pm

It's my understanding that the vanguard and verde are similar... but there are some major difference

Vanguard has fiberglass reinforced frames and sashes (verde does not).
Verde has the solar clear treated glass (vanguard does not)
Vanguard has V12 + i89 glass (no argon), the Verde has S2210x glass package (not sure what either of those means...)

So I guess the real question is-- is the fiberglass reinforcement necessary on windows less than 33 inches wide?

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Re: Provia vs Sunrise

#15 Post by randy » Fri May 11, 2018 4:24 pm

It was my understanding (from my rep) that the Verde had reinforcement like the Vanguard. If it does not (and the website doesn’t list it) I retract my recommendation of it. That’s very unfortunate as an unreinforced Sunrise double hung is susceptible to sagging. It’s also preferable to have the locks fastened into something more substantial than vinyl alone.

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