Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

For all those Replacement Window questions
Post Reply
Message
Author
Heights
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:01 am

Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#1 Post by Heights » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:03 am

I am getting replacement window quotes. Today what opened my eyes is the description of the two methods of installation that this installer could perform; he said it would be my choice. He said my existing vinyl windows were the same depth as the Vytex Georgetown. He could install other, better more expensive, windows that are thicker in depth; these would sit partially inside of the existing inside trim on the sides and partially inside of the sills because of the increased depth. The installation would have a nailing fin and would approximately overhang or jut out the same distance on the outside of the house exterior wall. These would have the outside vinyl siding cut back and a vinyl trim coil, frame the window on the outside. He will be sending me his estimates for different windows.
Is that what is meant when it is said that you lose glass area on a replacement window install?
Do the installation methods sound accurate? He said that is how the other installers would have to install.
What are your opinions of the two methods?

masterext
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#2 Post by masterext » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:41 am

You can certainly get the better window which is the Potomac. The Georgetown is a budget window. Why would you want a budget window if this is your primary home and not a rental? Increasing the depth is not an issue.

masterext
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#3 Post by masterext » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:24 am

Just by chance, if you are located near vytex in the metro DC area, i would contact “windows on washington”. They offer great service and you may find a better product with them for a similar cost. Eric is a great guy and very easy to work with. He is one one of the Pro’s that frequent this board. I would call him at the very least.

Heights
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:01 am

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#4 Post by Heights » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Another observation, if the wider windows are installed, the frame would push the blinds further into the inside of the rooms. Some of the blind parts would jut beyond the inside edge of the trim framing. In the worst case there might not be enough room on the wood trim to attach the mounting bracket at the top. I have cellular blinds, if the inside edge of the cell pleat is inside of the wood trim it would decrease the insulating benefit of the blind, beyond just not looking correct. It would all depend upon how far the blind is moved into the room.
Is that a correct observation?
Does anyone know how far or how much further it would extend into the room?
Is it possible that the wider in depth window could extend further outside. Jut further out from the exterior wall. Thereby fitting in the hole left by the old window frame?

Has anyone encountered this issue?
How did you resolve the issue?

I understand the Vytex Georgetown is not as good a window design wise. I am just trying to understand all the issues, including this installation and fit issue. I am getting and have other quotes.
Thanks

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4438
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#5 Post by Windows on Washington » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:11 am

There is usually still enough room if you crab the screw at an angle back into the framing.

We do it all the time and while the blind will be a bit proud of the trim, you can usually get them to fit back and not require replacement.

Heights
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:01 am

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#6 Post by Heights » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:16 am

I am confused. Attached is a picture of my exiting window. It is approximately 3 3/8” depth, with the outside protruding/extending 5/8” beyond the exterior wall. Would the windows like the Okna 500 or Vytex Potomac, that are listed as 3 ¼”, fit in the existing opening? Not as I described in my original post and be fitted inside of the inside trim.

Or does it have to do with the way the installer proposed to install, with a nailing fin, which causes the larger in depth windows to be installed inside of the trim?
diningBottomCornerShowDepth2.JPG
(103.64 KiB) Not downloaded yet
diningOutBottomCorner2.jpg
(230.34 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
Delaware Mike
Posts: 864
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#7 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:06 am

I wouldn't cut vinyl siding. It's so easy to remove and reinstall. All of the time we pull out vinyl new construction and put the same exact sized flanged vinyl back in. It only requires a small 3/16" to 5/16" sheetrock cut back. We lift the stools out and reinstall them after ripping in table saw. This allows us to pan flash the rough sill correctly. Furnish new color matched j-channel and you have rock solid tape flashed non-modified window install that will never leak. Guys that do vinyl new construction tear outs like aluminum express installs would never be on my team.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4438
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#8 Post by Windows on Washington » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:12 am

When folks are talking about frame depth, they are talking about the unit size of the frame and that does not include the screen track in this case.

User avatar
Delaware Mike
Posts: 864
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#9 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:20 am

Yup, the dimension of the frame the projects outward off the exterior face of the nailing flange is irrelevant. There is no "standard" for a vinyl extrusion with a flange in regard to the termination of the interior frame depth. Rarely is a high quality window's depth the same as builder's grade vinyl new construction. I take tons of before, during, and after pictures of this process so I can visually show homeowners along with explaining the process in person. It's more work, than a normal wood or metal tear out.

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2424
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
Contact:

Re: Replacement Windows and Installation: Question & Opinion

#10 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:26 pm

The nail fin does not make the window stick out per se, however it does limit where the window can be set depth-wise. Sometimes extra material can be added or removed to facilitate a specific landing spot on the depth while still utilizing the nail fin. This could have relevance to your blinds situation.

As far as cutting the window out, it sounds like DM is referencing an install where the frame is cut out, nail fin left embedded, and the new unit is set, size on size with no fin. Caulk and foam, hopefully tying into an old drip cap as the seal, or retrofit a new one. This is an industry accepted installation, although not the most comprehensive option.
I don't have any issue with cutting back vinyl siding. Cutting it to facilitate proper flashing, WRB integration, and then adding trim and new j-channel still gets the full, multi-level seal and adds a higher end look than siding right up to the window frame. Dropping the siding is equally correct, I just find it to be more of a pain. If you are doing a house full of windows you've R&R'd a significant portion of the siding on the home by the time all is said and done. Never fails in my own experience that a piece gets damaged or put back in the wrong spot leaving fade lines, etc... Probably more personal preference than anything though between those two IMO.

Post Reply