Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (and other questions)

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Newbie772
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Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (and other questions)

#1 Post by Newbie772 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:15 pm

I recently placed an order for four Pella 350 series windows (fin installation) through Lowes, but soon after, I realized the oversized depth of the window was going to be an issue. Prior to ordering, I misunderstood the window depth to be 3 1/4 “, but it turns out only the 4 1/2” depth option is available for fin installation. The 4 1/2 inch depth pretty much rules out 2 inch blinds in my window casings. I could not cancel the order so the windows will be delivered either way. Lowes has come up with a solution to increase the depth in my window casing by furring out the side of the house. “We can cut back the siding tape and seal the opening with flashing, put a 1x4 pvc trim around the opening and install the window on top of the trim. Re-flash the window and then lay another 1x4 PVC trim as originally planned. This will give us another 1” in the house and will have a good seal from water penetration.”

In reading comments on this board and elsewhere, it sounds like the pocket sill design on the 350 is subpar and the sloped sill design of the Okna 800 would be the way to go. I really wish at this point that I had gone with the Okna 800. The Okna 800 is a standard 3 1/4” depth.

I plan on replacing all the windows in my house (8 windows total) eventually. I just wanted to start with four windows to keep the project manageable. The quote for Okna 800 is $8600 and Pella 350 is $10282 for all 8 windows.

My options are to go forward with the Pella 350 with the fix noted above or see if Lowes will allow me to return the four 350 windows. I am not sure what they will charge me for the return. The cost of the windows to Lowes is $1900 and retail cost is $3000 (per the sales guy). I assume Lowes won’t recover much of their loss by selling the returned windows.

If Lowes let’s me out of the deal for $1900, are the Okna 800 series windows enough of an improvement over the 350 series to offset my loss?

I got myself into a mess here. Hoping to get some good opinions from experts. Which option would you chose? Is the Pella 350 window a decent enough choice? Does the fix proposed by Lowes for the 350 series sound like it is structurally sound?

Thanks!
Last edited by Newbie772 on Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

masterext
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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#2 Post by masterext » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:22 pm

The Okna is MUCH better than the pella 350. It designed much better and its much more air tight. Okna is one of the most efficient windows in the industry. Also, as you said, pella uses an outdated/ cheap sill design. Pella is not a premium vinyl window and it certainly is never recommended by the pro’s here.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#3 Post by Windows on Washington » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:21 am

Why was new construction opted for here as a default? I am not usually a fan of furring out the outside of the home and effectively creating a ripple (speed bump) in the drainage plane.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#4 Post by Delaware Mike » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:33 am

If one is ordering most vinyl offerings with a nailing flange the position of the flange is not flush with the exterior of the face of the frame. When we do an OKNA 800 series with the field applied new construction flanges the interior termination face of the new windows allows for well over a 2" jamb extension or sheetrock (4 9/16" wall) area to stay in place.

I'm not a fan of packing out behind the flange of the new window to obtain more jamb pocket real estate. I think that could look very odd from the exterior not to mention what WOW pointed out.

While I don't do that many projects with Pella these days, I'm lucky enough to have a good Pella store in my area with a really good outside rep to help myself and homeowners dial in all of the details.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#5 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:59 pm

I'd agree with the others... YES, the Okna is superior. The fact that they are actually less expensive as quoted in this case is a bonus, and gives you $1700 of credit for whatever Lowes would charge to let you out of it. Even if it was the full $3k, I'd say that you are still in a good spot paying a smallish premium (after accounting for the lower price to start) for the better product.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#6 Post by Newbie772 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:23 pm

Thanks for the responses! To my amazement, Lowes let me out of the deal with a 100% refund! This was a much better outcome than I expected! The quote from the other installer for the Okna 800 windows is certainly very reasonable (8 windows at $8600). However, I also made an appointment with another installer on Monday AM to demo/provide a quote for Sunrise windows. The Sunrise installer offers both the Restoration and Standard series. Any thoughts on Okna 800 vs Sunrise?

My only very minor reservations on the Okna 800 are: (1) the lift handle versus the usual lift rail. I currently have a rail and am not 100% sure a handle would be preferable aesthetically. (2) some have noted the Okna 800 exterior frame is a little busy. What are some aesthetic differences between Okna 800 and Sunrise Restoration and what do you prefer?

If one is better at sound proofing than the other, then that would definitely sway my decision as well.

Thanks!

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#7 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:58 pm

The tighter window will also be better abating sound.

While there are some colonial bevels to the exterior of the 800, they are pretty similar to the Sunrise extrusion once you see it.

Can't go wrong with either. If you like the look of the Sunrise, its a solid window.

Assuming both installation companies are competent, you can go wrong with that line up.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#8 Post by TheWindowNerd » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:55 am

Who is doing the 800Dx for you?
My concern is the field applied nailing fin. Only guy I would trust to do that is DE Mike, he ia a perfectionist.
Otherwise I would opt for the 600DX, it is available with an integral nailing fin.
theWindowNerd

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#9 Post by Newbie772 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:05 pm

WOW asked why was new construction selected as a default. Pocket installation is not possible in my situation, but aside from that I am a little unclear about my installation options. I have had 3 out of 4 installers tell me that they would use fin installation by cutting back the hardiplank siding around the windows to access the old fins and then attach the new windows and trim them out with PVC trim. The Sunshine installer told me he would attach the Restoration windows using screws, not fins, so cutting of the siding would not be needed. The screws would attach to the studs in the frame.

Do the installation options differ by manufacturer? Is one better than the other? The sunshine installer showed me the predrilled holes in the sides of the Restoration window and swore to me this was an approved method of installation by the manufacturer. The OKNA installer never mentioned any other option other than the new construction/ fin installation that I described above.

Both the OKNA and Sunshine installers are experienced with their respective products and have a good reputation in my area in central NC. The OKNA installer is from PA and has a long history with OKNA.

Lisa

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#10 Post by Newbie772 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:42 pm

I also wanted to add that the Okna installer proposes replacing ALL interior trim (casing and sills) while the Sunshine installer proposes replacing sills only if damaged/rotted and would not touch the rest of the interior casing around the window. The Sunshine installer said he could adequately inject the foam without removing the casing.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#11 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:20 pm

The Okna 800 is superior to Sunrise in DH and Slider configuration. Much closer comparison in casement. As WoW alluded to, the exterior detail will be similar between the two, and in fact most vinyl windows will have some detail like that to "dress up" the screen track.

On the installation, the Okna guy with the nail fin is proposing a more comprehensive installation. The method offered by the Sunrise guy is not bad per se, however it is less work, should be lower cost, and in the end will likely offer slightly less protection against future air and/or water infiltration around the install. I find no issue whatsoever with a field applied nail fin, it is used quite regularly without issue. While an extruded nail fin is nice, one should remember that most window of other materials (wood, etc) have mechanically applied nail fins as well. Ideally the installation should be secure and sealed independent of the nail fin, so when done properly it should only serve to improve the integrity and seal of the installation with minimal risk of adverse effects. Frankly, if one cannot be trusted to install a window with a field applied nail fin, they really should not be trusted to do any install IMO.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#12 Post by Newbie772 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:37 pm

Interestingly, the quoted price for the Sunrise Restoration Windows was $2800 more than the Okna 800, and after haggling, it was still $1400 higher. The Sunshine installer did have a pretty sweet financing deal, but still, that’s a big difference especially considering the simplified method of installation they proposed.

Can you compare/contrast Okna 800 and Sunrise Restorations in the following areas:

1. Green tinting. I like the low e benefits, but a noticeable green hue would be unacceptable. Sunrise seems a bit more customizable than Okna with options of both Omega 12 with twelve layers of coating or Omega 8 with eight layers of coating. The restorations window with Omega 12 did seem to have a noticeable green tint. The green hue seems less noticeable in the Omega 8 with the reduced number of layers of reflective metallic shields. I only viewed the Okna 800 once, and unfortunately can’t compare the sunrise Restorations and Okna 800 side by side, so any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

2. Viewing area. Are Okna 800 frames as thin as the Sunrise restoration frames?

3. The lift. Will the lift handle on the Okna 800 interfere with blinds?

4. Sound abatement. I like that Sunrise has an option of noise reducing glass, which would be nice for the Master bedroom. How does the sound transmittance class rating compare for Sunrise Restorations vs Okna 800?

Thanks!!

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#13 Post by Windows on Washington » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:58 pm

1. Omega 8 and 12 are likely just Cardinal Low-e 272 and Low-e 366 respectively. The Low-e 272 will be very similar to Okna's glass which is made by Guardian and is a 7138. At that point, the VT ratings on the two are nearly identical at 72 vs. 71.

2. Not quite. Slightly larger. The Okna 500 is identical to the Sunrise in frame profile size.

3. If they hang very tightly to the frame, maybe. Most times they are not problematic.

4. I don't think either are tested. See previous comments on sound attenuation. There are some general rules that you can base estimates on if you like, but they are just estimates based on observed data in the more general sense with regards to glazing thickness, glass space, and overall IGU spacing.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#14 Post by masterext » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:11 pm

Just to eliminate any future confusion, “ sunshine” is not a window brand, it is called Sunrise. Lol

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#15 Post by Newbie772 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:34 pm

Lololol, well maybe Sunshine should be a window brand 😉

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