Pro Trim Wrap Question

[Window4U (IL)]

Let me explain some things to you from my perspective in a civil manner as if we were just starting this conversation.

PK asked for help because his brickmold style corners were not coming out neat like he would like, and was saying he was open to learning. My post and photo were meant to help him by explaining the mechanics of why corners don't match, thus giving him insight of what to do the next time he started cutting a brickmold top. This understanding can also allow him to fix a mitre that he cut at a perfect 45, but still doesn't work. I posted a less than perfect photo for a visual aid to help explain.
Most of the time a mitre doesn't go together right, the installers have this problem because the A and B points don't match. Having an installer run a perfect 45 degree angle from the corner is fine and is what everyone wants in the end, but much of the time that does not ensure a perfect corner. I am sure PK probably cuts a perfect 45 and still has some trouble.
By following the A and B lines up the side with his pencil, and marking his top at the corresponding points, he can now use a combination square to mark the mitre across these two points, and end up with a nice looking corner every time. That was the purpose of my post.

On my suggestion on snips...again a reply to his wanting to sharpen up his skills. My wrapping from job to job entails many more reverse bends than you are used to from what I am picking up. I also do a lot of custom metal crowns, fluted columns and other types of detail work. Everyone has their own style of wrapping and that's just fine. My comments about yellow snips are because of all the extra bends I do making my metalwork custom from job to job, which have sold me on using lefts and rights. The fact you don't cover lintels where you are explains why you get by just fine with yellows. That makes perfect sense. You use your yellows for your straight cuts, score the mitres and you're done. I have no doubt you can cut just great with the snips you use. If you routinely did reverse bends on your sills and tops, including covering lintels all in one piece, then maybe you would understand my suggestion for those wanting to hone their skills to use lefts and rights. Cutting straight bends and not a lot of reverse bends I am sure you do precise work. No arguement there.

To answer your question about whether I bend a flange to cover the caulking....the answer is no. I always caulk the brick. What I do is build the window out more if needed, or I usually just bend very deep brickmold sides to cover the caulking. The lintels I cover are a one piece top that stops short of the steel, then goes out horizontal past it as well. No steel to aluminum contact to prevent corrosion. I did notice that your sill trim on your photo stopped 1/8" short of the steel too.

I understand your pride in the fact you have been doing this 15 years. I've been at it close to 35 so I know how you feel. I also know that window installers that have extreme pride in their workmanship are some of the biggest headed carpenters there are, (me included). It is very easy when you are going to a new job every day, and at the end of the day you get told you do the nicest work they have ever seen.....day after day, week after week, year after year. This reaction is because of the dramatic improvement many people see in their home in just one day. They sometimes percieve installers as miracle workers because they are overwhelmed at the difference.
I love hiring window installers that think they are the best that ever walked the earth. That pride is good for ensuring continued excellent work and no cutting of corners. It also explains why prideful installers get bent out of shape so easily when they are challenged about their workmanship and methods.

[Guy]

XSleeper, In defense to W4U's remarks and thoughts. I know he's not the type of person to come out and attack anyone. Please understand we've been answering questions on these boards for many years. We are constantly attacked by everyone passing through this site. So we are always quick to defend our comments and issues related to what we do as installers. I know that W4U, FeneX and myself have all been in this industry for at least 30 years each. We will all tell you that we surely don't know everything about the industry. It changes daily and we do all we can to change with it. W4U and myself are both still very active in the installations of our customers product on a daily basis. FeneX is under a huge demand to educate consumers and the industry on product knowledge and manufacturing across the nation. He doesn't have much time to throw the tool belt on unless he's at home!!!

The hardest think to understand when posting on these forums is what you type doesn't always apply to what your really feeling. If you go back and read your initial post it does seem to attack his methods or theories. After reading your last post I understand that you were basically saying it was a lot easier than what was being talked about. Capping windows is an art form that has every installer using a technique that suits their own abilities. We all had to learn from someone showing us whay they knew. From there we just learn from trial and error. I myself use different cutting tools for different applications. I live and die with my right and left snips. I hardly ever use the yellow snips. Otherwise I use Aviator snips I got from a buddy who works for Northwest Airlines. The bottom line is knowing what looks good and being consistant enough to do it every time. The customer is always the final judge!