Alside Sheffiled VS Simonton Prism

[kifisia]

Homeowner,

Thank you for your input. it is good to know the comforworld 6000 is a fine window. I will agree with you that i like the way WW does their pricing. everything is black and white. Frankly that is the only reason why i now have an estimate from someone else at the same price. It was because i said, here is what i am getting from WW and here is the price. Can you match it? Many could not. Only one did.

You are right. I should discount anyone for the time lapse. In fact, I am have established contact again with my "prism" guy who has gained all his brownie points back thanks to this board!

My WW salesman also was insisting on the 4000 window (the excalibur). In fact, he was insisting so much, that upon discovery of the fact that it was an excalibur window and upon review of the excalibur and sheffield online (by the way their 6000 according to them is the sheffield, not the ultramax)
I insisted on seeing the 6000. after all, for $10 more, who would not??
At the house, with both windows side by side, me the complete dummie on windows could clearly see that the 6000 is a sturdier looking one. He still was praising the 4000 and its slim looks, to the point that I am now convinced that WW is getting a better profit margin of the 4000 than the 6000 at least with the pricing as they currently have it. $10 more for the 6000 vs. the 4000??? who would NOT pay that?? here we are spending $30, $40 and $50 for fake grids .. why wouldn't we pay $10 more for a window that even to the untrained eye, is far more superior?

I guess I like WW and their black and white pricing method. I just have a problem with their salespeople.. In my case, this was the second one who visited my house (recommended by the owner of that franchise) after I complained to him about the first one, who counted 22 windows, and 27 storm removals, and trims!!! Needless to say the second guy's estimate came to about $1000 less than the first because there were other mistakes there...

I have asked my "prism" man to bring the Sheffield and the Prism and I will put them side by side and go with my guts and the one I like the most.
As for the warm spacer, he said both the Sheffield and the Prism will have it.

I am getting there... thank you all for the input homeowner and I will take your advice and wait a while longer to see if WW will respond. So far, still no word... (the profit margin on windows must be better than siding

[Bill]

I wanted to post here the link to an excellent post from W4U on the sister site that illustrated the frame construction of the Alside Sheffield. He had originally pointed this out about a year ago and since then it’s amazing how many windows I have noticed constructed this way typically from smaller fabricators.

http://www.replacement-windows.com/wind ... php?t=1454

I will never again sell a window where the lift rail is part of the glazing bead I have had countless service calls in the past to snap them back in place.

About two years ago Simonton added Low-e/Argon as a standard feature in all of their higher end windows without an increase in price. We do have the ability to remove it but we receive no reduction in price.

Kifisia I believe you are correct that WW must make more $ with the Excalibur equivalent, their should be more than a $10.00 separation in cost between the Excalibur and the Sheffield. I would not recommend the Excalibur to anyone.

Bill
Uneeda Window of NJ

[kifisia]

Bill, thank you for the link. Very valuable information. Indeed I feel like I am in Window college here and I have just passed from Windows 101 to Windows 102. Whew... Long way to go till 701... but..the Alside Sheffield thanks to this board has lost its appeal. I am as I said going to see the Shcucos this weekend. More on them later. Thank you all!!

[ANOTHER WINDOW GUY]

WW is now using many other brands in addition to Alside. Apparently because of rising cost the $189 is getting tougher to make any money on and the Excalibur has become the 6000 series for many of them. The local dealer is using the xact window, what a piece of s... that is. As in the past I advise people to pass on this co. Quality and customer satisfaction are the last thing on their mind.

[homeowner]

i dont know whats happening nation wide, but in my area, prices are going down. a large statewide window company i passed on, recently called me and reduced their quote by over $2k. they wanted about $650 a window. they now advertise every day in the paper: $165 a window installed any size (likely diff window but)... ww is now fourth from the cheapest in my town. btw, their brochure and website makes clear the 4000 is the excalibur. the 6000 is by choice the sheffield or ultramaxx.

[kifisia]

Well, in Northern Virginia, Fairfax City to be exact, the market must be really hot...everyone must be changing working on their homes... the WW guy from Window World of Chanitlly to be even more precise has yet to call me back. I gave up on him. I also gave up on the prism guy because he too has not returned my calls. Four days to get back to a client with questions?? Maybe asking too many questions is not the way they do business... Their loss ... My 1960's wood windows and their storm counterparts are looking better and better every day!!!!

[khale2]

One reason the contractor may want to sign both contracts is because it is easier to do windows first and then the siding. You the customer get a better job and it makes his - the contractors life a little easier. Obviously, the other reason is two jobs at once at the same address is more profitable.
Good Luck.

[kifisia]

It is one thing to want to sign both contracts at the same time, and another thing to say, I will call you back when I can fit you in my schedule and never do! Which is what happened with the rep. from WW of Chantilly. He has still not called back. So... the siding job has gone to someone else. Someone who called me back the same day I called him despite the fact that it was a Sunday. Will he do a good job?? Given the references I saw, I am sure it can't be any worst than WW. After all, when I call him, he shows interest!

Back to the windows though. Some other guy who called told me (when I said that I was thinking of Shucos) that ALL windows filled with argon regardless of who makes them are bound to leak eventually (5-10 years) because of the way they are sealed and they are all sealed the same way. He too was an advocate of the super spacer but admitted that even with that, the seals would break at some point and the saches would need to be replaced which is why it is important to go with a company that has a solid customer service record unlike Schuco.

Well... so now I was told basically that chances are I replace my windows now and 5 years later I gotta change some again... Gee... My wood single pane windows and their storm counterparts have been on my house for 46 years and are still looking just fine. Do the extra energy savings justify the huge cost of replacing my wood windows with plastic ones doomed to fail in such a short period of time and cause me headaches?? I don't think so. I am keeping them. They've been good to me for 8 years. And as my dentist says...If it ain't broken..don't fix it!

Of course...I would not have reached this conclusion had one of them people I wanted to buy them from were to actually answer questions. But then again..maybe they could sense that it was a losing battle huh?? Who knows.

[kifisia]

I just read in another thread the following which completely justify my decision to keep my wood windows & storm windows:

At 0° outside and 70° inside, a single glazed window is about 14°-17° glass temperature. Add a storm to that and it raises the glass temperature to 45°... a Low E/argon gas window is 57° WITHOUT a storm window.

So... 45° with what I have now.. VS 57° with lots of new headaches & a lighter waller.

It's a no brainer indeed! People of the world with fine old wood windows & storm windows... think twice...

[windowrep]

first of all the temperature example is completely b.s. i have never nor will i ever see a wood single pane with a storm window be at 45* when it is 0 outside. hell they are barely 45* when it is 40* outside. you unfortunatly have been misinformed on both ends. keep searching around this site and gather some good information. you really don't believe that you will not be any better off with new windows do you? maybe you should look at them again. good luck either way.

[InfoSponge]

windowrep, the quote was talking about a single pane window with a storm, not just a plain single pane window. The 45 degree figure is close to what I've read, and our resident glass expert (Oberon) seems to agree and quotes very close at about 43 degrees:
http://forums.myhomeimprovement.com/viewtopic.php?p=266

But kifisia, you also need to remember that are reasons other than glass temperature to replace windows: Old ones hard to open, condensation, noise reduction, easier to clean, better looks, drafts, rotting wood, cracked glass, failing/ugly storms, etc. You'll need to decide if those types of reasons change the equation for you.

[Window4U (IL)]

I would imagine that 43 degree quote can vary quite a bit depending on the storm window.
I would bet that figure is for a well sealed storm window, not a leaky triple track. I've seen a lot of storm windows that barely do anything to help insulate.
The leakier the storm, the colder the single pane interior glass.

[kifisia]

thank you all for your input.

when i decided to change my windows it was more to enhance the look of the house as storm windows are indeed dated. i agree that other factors come into play, and not just energy efficiency. speaking of which.. i have two dogs and a storm door with a doggie door open all the time summer and winter and even with the loss from there my gas and electric bills were unbelievably enough lower than my neighbor's who has new double paned low E windows and is now considering solar heating systems!! we both have five people in the house and we both have dogs. only my door is open, hers isn't... so i'd say my windows are performing at this point just fine energy wise. they are a bit hard to open and definetely a pain to clean. and lets not forget .. once i change the windows to make the house look better, out must go the door too... as it will look old then!!! and theeeen...pretty much everything in my old little house will look old..

i have now seen several vinyl windows (i have not seen shuco yet) and i will say this with no hesitation. my wood windows look better from inside. outside..oh well...the ugly duklin storms for now will stay.

again, many thanks for all the responses. i hope this thread shows others as much as it has shown me...

[windowrep]

whatever temperature you want to read or research or what a lab report will tell you it is supposed to be is great , although it does not mean anything to me. i talk to 2-4 people in there homes a day and measure the temperature in every home in ne ohio during the winter. most homeowners would love to see a 43-45 degree reading. truth is, i have never seen it. center of glass edge of glass whatever. and that is with outside temp above 0 degrees. i am just saying, as are you, that numbers can be very deceiving and should not encourage or discourage a person from improving their home. numbers are numbers and can be thrown around pretty easy. as if two houses are ever the same. that is the same reason people trade in their cars. upgrade. very few people tow their car into a dealer because it stopped running and they need a new one. they drive in and upgrade. w4u , you are right, especially in the midwest most storm window put in in the 60's are done. all the corners are seperating and most of the time the no longer shut all the way. i have never even seen a storm window where you can not see daylight in at least 4 places. kifisia, if you buy new windows buy them because you take pride in your house and once they are installed you will be very pleased with all the other benefits that you are now for some reason doubting. all the different brands aside and everyones favorites aside, how many people post on here that they should have never replaced their windows? not many. and even fewer in the real world where people get new windows installed and forget about them and move on to the next project. either way good luck

[homeowner]

kifisia, i almost got to where you are. similar deal, windows work ok.
at one point i wished i had not done anything.

but if i were you id still consider if you were really wanting windows. heres why: you waited too long, season has begun. these guys are busy. some business must make hay while they can. wrestle the guy to the ground, give him $. they are selling to whomever is in front of them. next: i love my windows!!! none of my fears materialized (prolly a jillion errors, but they are fine) they work great and look great. next. i think its a buyers market. while some people pay a lot, you can get windows reasonable and i couldnt a decade ago, i tried. i paid half what everyone wanted in 1992 (wasnt looking at vinyl however). i dont know about energy numbers, but i can tell a difference in thes past weeks. my a/c keeps freezing me. i havent put shades up yet (hell i may not) and less glare. unbelievably quieter. main improvement: no storm windows. now i OPEN/USE my windows. heres the best part, i spent about as little as possible and im happy. if my windows lose their stuff in 10 years, ill buy new ones. kinda like the difference between a ford and an audi. gimme the ford. no, gimme 2. buy some windows!