Advise needed Schuco vs. Imperiva by Pella

[needwindows]

I have narrowed my replacement windows down to these two. Eight windows and the estimates are only about $600 (total) apart from each other. I'm located in Richmond, Va. I'd just your thoughts on these two windows. I've heard great things about the Schuco window's and they were very nice. Any help and input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[XSleeper]

The fiberglass Pella Impervia is pretty nice. I gave one a test drive last week at Pella. Very slim frame gives you maximum glass. I have a higher opinion of fiberglass than I do of vinyl over time.

[InfoSponge]

I posted my personal thoughts on Impervia recently here:
http://www.replacement-windows.com/wind ... t=impervia

In my opinion, unless you need the paintability of fiberglass or like the thinner frame, Schuco is a slightly better constructed/performing window, but both looked like reasonable choices. Note that I'm just homeowner who considered both of these windows, not a window professional.

[usmarine0352]

Don't just look at the window. Look at the quality of the IG (Insulated Glass) Unit. That is far more likely to fail then the window.

Fiberglass is really strong. But ask yourself this: Have you ever seen a window frame or sash actually break????

Whether it is wood, vinyl or fiberglass, I've personally never seen it. So is fiberglass really better then vinyl or wood??? Fiberglass is also mechanically fastened together, while vinyl is welded.

Look at the spacers, TPS, Super Spacer, aluminum, and go from there.

[needwindows]

Well I signed a contract for 8 Schuco triple pane, double strength glass, krypton, self locking windows, w\full screens and installation. Are there any specific questions I should ask about how they do their installation?

Thanks

[InfoSponge]

Some suggestions to verify for your install:

- Gaps between window and frame will be insulated
- Installation includes trim work where required
- Windows all lock easily
- Windows open/close smoothly and without too much force and don't squeak/rub
- Reveals (weather-stripped gap between frame/sash) are even on both sides for double-hung
- Gap between frame/sash is even top to bottom when closing sliders
- All frames/sashes are level/plumb
- Test window operation before screwing the window in completely
- Some type of trim overlaps over the top of the window frame to help prevent water getting in there
- Caulk inside and out completely around window frame

This is just some of the stuff I tried to check when instaling my windows. I'm sure the professionals here have more things they check. You'll probably also find other suggestions by searching this forum.

[Guy]

Since needwindows has already made his choice he's on his way to the next level. But just to clarify some things about the two windows for others to know. The Schuco windows performance levels are the best in the industry in almost every category I think. The Pella Impervia is the next in line to Schuco in many cases. The Schuco is definitely the better of the two but not by much. Just for the record the Impervia frame is a molded unit done in one piece. There are no mechanical fasteners holding the frame together. The fiberglass used by Pella is the strongest material used in the industry today. So it's very worthy in all climates of the Nation. The other thing is it can be painted any color inside or out. So it has it's advantages there. Their glass is top of the line as far as I've ever used them in the past ten years. Otherwise either choice made would have given the customer a quality window. The bottom line as told numerous times is the installation of the windows. No matter how good the window is. The installation can make it or break it. Good Luck!!!

[researcher]

[QUOTE]..."There are no mechanical fasteners holding the frame together."

Does that really matter if it is done right? After all, piratically the whole house is put together with mechanical fasteners.

[Guy]

Good Point!!!

[windowrep]

excellent point. let me take that one step further. having built houses and added additions to homes for about 12 years, never have i or have i seen a builder cut a piece of material at a 45 degree angle and use it as a load bearing point. no where in your house is there a 45 degree except trim work. talk to a welder and ask him why they don't weld at 45 degree angles. everything is butt jointed. why? because it is the strongest joint. a 45 degree angle is the weakest joint you can have in the building industry. just something to think about.

[researcher]

windowrep, I agree, but windows are not meant to be load bearing. The interior trim around the window is cut at 45% because it to is not meant to be load bearing.

[windowrep]

a sash does not bear the load of 2 and quite possibly 3 panes of glass? okay, then what is holding up your glass package?

[chrisexv6]

a sash does not bear the load of 2 and quite possibly 3 panes of glass? okay, then what is holding up your glass package?

Isnt the IGU in a 90 degree channel at the bottom of the sash? The 45s on each end of the sash bear very little of, if any, the load created by the IGU, no?

I suppose the drawback to mechanical fasteners (even in homes!) is that eventually they could back out. With mechanical fasteners holding together a plastic (vinyl) frame, couldnt the tapped holes eventually strip out? After all, there is at least a little expansion and contraction with vinyl (unless the mechanical fasteners are bolted into metal that is inside the vinyl extrusion), not even counting vibrations/shock from how windows may be "mishandled" (slamming shut, etc.).

Mechanical fasteners are used to put homes together, but they are used in spots where there are other materials being used to air and waterproof the home itself (we dont expect nails and screws to provide an air and water tight seal). The frame of a window can pass air from outside to inside, so wouldnt fusion welding the plastic be a better bet for fighting air and water infiltration over mechanical fasteners with a piece of foam/rubber/whatever gasket between the frame pieces?

-Chris

[windowrep]

chris, you said " expansion and contraction of the vinyl" if the sash is fusion welded then what is going to give? all i am saying is during the window buying process do not get caught up the fusion welding. a mechanically fastened window (done correctly, yes metal reinforced and correctly water and air sealed) will operate correctly. there are plenty other factors that will actually affect the performance of the windows. another thing to think about. what is holding the metal reinforcement at the meeting rails of a window that is fusion welded? answer. the cam lock bolts. if you fusion weld the cormers how close does the metal reinforcement get to the corner of the sash? with a mechanical fasten the metal reinforcement is able to extend all the way to the end of the sash rails and in some cases even the shoe is screwed right into the metal. i have seen and i would guess anyone in the industry for awhile has seen both mechanical and fusion welds fail. just some thoughts from experience.

[Guy]

Well I can honestly see many points here. Since I'm a GC and used to be a certfified welder I understand the issues at hand. Personally I'm not a fan of any window that is mechanically fastened in the corners. JMO from past experience. I'm sure there may be some out there, I'm just unaware of any. Our state seems to push everything to it's extreme. So mechanically fastened products usually rust out before long (even stainless). The butt joint is far more load bearing than the angled joint. Any welder will use an angled piece as a gusset to support the butt joint. Even in windows the areas which need to bear any weight or have any kind of strength are at the mulls..and they're butt joined. We really are getting off the topic here with all the load and strength issues. Heck here we have to worry about the weight of the product and snow load ontop of that. Sometimes it boggles the mind. Anyway just as a funny note to strength and load. When I built my addition some years back I used stainless steel screws to build the entire addition. No nails except in the shingles. I'll tell you what, if we could get a hurricane here in MN I would sit it out just to see how it would handle in the high winds. It's all 2x6 construction with four 3 1/2" #10 stainless screws in each stud top and bottom. All the trusses are screwed in place from under the top plate with 4 1/2" screws and then screwed down with hurricane straps. I did it all for three new 18volt cordless impacts. It was a test for Dewalt (my buddy does field testing for them) to see how strong the impacts would be and how long the batteries would last. They provided all the screws and the tools. I couldn't go wrong! It's almost like a cement bunker it's so strong. If the roof didn't have such a slope I'd have a big old square dance up there. Now I'm relly of the topic. Sorry Mr. Admin!!!