Is it legal to put new construction into existing space?

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Understanding
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:54 pm

Is it legal to put new construction into existing space?

#1 Post by Understanding »

I live in Chicago- The windows that I intend to purchase are new construction only. Can I place them into an existing frame with minimal modification (if required)? What is the level of difficulty?

Guy
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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#2 Post by Guy »

We use New Construction windows in the replacement industry every day. What you'll want to do is totally remove your old window completely down to the studs. That's frame and all. We call this a total replacement window. When ordering the new windows I measure them from the outside. I get the brick to brick for each unit. I put my tape on the very outside of the brickmould of each side. I then measure the very top or even the top of the drip cap down to the bottom of the sill board. This gives me my "Brick To Brick". I then take this dimension and subtract the width of the new windows nail fin. Depending on the window the customer wants the nail fins are different on certain windows. So you need to know what the dimension will be. I then subtract that from all four sides leaving me my unit size for ordering. I also order snap on brickmould with each window for finishing the outside. My vinyl supplier pre-glues it in place in the factory. So I just back caulk the brickmould and screw down the inside. It looks sharp when finished.

The only thing I look for when doing this is the old double hungs with the big sloping sills. Ounce they are removed you find they have a 1 1/2" lip of sheetrock sticking up from the bottom (on the inside). So if I see this, I make a note to fill each opening during the installation. I then subtract another 1 1/2" from the height of the new window. This way the bottom nail fin has something to attach to without removing siding. I'd place this at a 7-8 on the difficulty scale for the first timer. Mainly because of proper measuring and the demo of the old units. You have to be extremely careful not to damage the inside when tearing out the old windows. Good Luck!!!

Paneless

#3 Post by Paneless »

It's legal, just not wise. Chances are you'll also need a permit. Unless you have a desire to change all your interior moldings and have to match outside material, what not use a replacement?

Understanding
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:54 pm

#4 Post by Understanding »

Paneless and Guy

Thanks, I am replacing the trim in the entire home. The home has vinyl siding. The people who replaced the windows and put in the current double hungs did the worst job of fitting and trim work. There are 2" to 3" gaps from the frame to the drywall. Which is another reason for replacements. The rough opening 6' and some change. I have approx. 50% of my heating and cooling leave through the windows and another 40% through the uninsulated walls. In an effort to increase energy efficiency, I am insulating the walls and replacing the windows. The windows that I desire to increase the aesthetic appeal, I was told that they were for new construction only.

Guy
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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#5 Post by Guy »

Paneless where do you feel it's unwise to do a total replacement? We do them everyday here and we pull permits for almost every job we do. In fact anything over $1000.00 has to have a permit here.

Doing a total replacement is the ultimate way to do a window IMO. We can almost do them as fast as an insert. We have it down to a science and it's really easy with todays accessory parts for windows. JMO

Ken
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:03 am

#6 Post by Ken »

Guy wrote:Paneless where do you feel it's unwise to do a total replacement? We do them everyday here and we pull permits for almost every job we do. In fact anything over $1000.00 has to have a permit here.

Doing a total replacement is the ultimate way to do a window IMO. We can almost do them as fast as an insert. We have it down to a science and it's really easy with todays accessory parts for windows. JMO
How can you do a total replacement with a vinyl window frame in a brick exterior?

Understanding
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:54 pm

#7 Post by Understanding »

Thanks,

Since I have to strip the wall, I'd prefer new installation over the replacement. Just wanted to know if it is legal since there was so much talk on what can and can not be done. Since I have vinyl siding it should be easier.

Guy
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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#8 Post by Guy »

Ken, It's very simple. Most manufacturers have different types of clips to set windows with. We have numerous types of mounting methods which allow us to install the window in many different ways. In a worse case scenario we can always do it the old school way with screws and anchors.

Paneless

Repplacement

#9 Post by Paneless »

Guy:

We sell replacement windows. It is my firm conviction that not only is there more bang for the buck with a quality replacement often it is unnecessary to use a new construction window in a retro-fit situation.

In a new construction window, which by the way is named that for a reason, often more money is spent in labor and materials, minus the actual window wherein a replacement the bulk of the money is for the window itself.

If you compare an Andersen new construction window against a quality replacement wherein the openings needs to be altered, the cost would be about eh same but the end results vastly different.

With the Andersen you would still have a window with a lesser guarantee, no tilt-in feature, and interior wood that aside from the inherent problems with wood still needs to be maintained along with a huge difference in overall performance.

Regarding permits, BOCA code in New Jersey only requires a permit under the following conditions regardless of the job cost:

1. Altering the opening, smaller or larger.
2. Replacing a window with another style other than the original, i.e. changing from Double Hungs to casements

Guy
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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#10 Post by Guy »

Paneless,

Here's how we look at window replacements here in the Northland. Anytime your removing an existing window or parts of an existing window, it's a replacement. So whether your doing an insert or an entire unit we still consider it to be an replacement. The only time we call a window "New Construction" is when it's going into a home that is under construction for the first time.

If we do a home which will require us to remove the old window unit completely (down to the studs). We call it a "Total Replacement" because we are actually pulling out a window that was already installed. So in all honesty we can't call it "New Construction" because it's not. I think the term "New Construction" is just become a cliché in the industry for any window which has fins.

When in all honesty they should be referred to as what they are actually being used for. I've become this way from dealing with Pella and installing for Lowes (who sell Pella). They have an "Insert Window" in both vinyl and clad wood. They come with no fins and have a frame width of 3-1/4". They also have a "Total Replacement" window in vinyl that comes in a 4-9/16" frame thickness with a nailing fin. They then have a clad unit that comes with a nail fin any size up to 6 3/4". The sticky part is when you order a new construction vinyl window. They come with a nailing fin and only a frame thickness of 2 3/4". So this can throw your game off if you've ordered windows and jamb boxes to do a job. The jamb boxes will come up a half inch short from the window and make your day very bad at least one time. So I must make sure I order product with the correct terminology or a bad day will be coming down the road!

When I sell a Total Replacement job myself I use my local manufacturer of vinyl windows. In these situations I get a pre-applied 2" vinyl brickmould around the exterior of the window. So I can order them by giving them a "Brick to Brick" measurement. By doing this the window fits back in the opening almost exactly where the old one came out. The windows come jambed to my specs with either a white, tan or stainable oak. So the customer pays a little more for materials and the labor to do the job usually is washed because we don't have to wrap the old frame. I also consider it to be the ultimate way of replacing any window. By doing it this way we can shut off any air infiltration around the window. By doing an insert it's hard to make sure the air won't be coming around the old frame.

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