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 Post subject: Home Craftsman has .18 SHGC according to the NFRC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:35 pm 

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I live in the North Ft. Worth Texas area and have been researching windows for my 8 year old home. I want to be certain I am getting the best, but have found myself at a crossroads. My salesperson told me to check the National Fenestration Rating Council website (www.nfrc.org) to establish the true performance ratings on windows. I checked all of them out and found the Home Craftsman window (owned by Alenco) to be the best performer. My problem is that the price does not match the outstanding performance rating. It seems to be competitively priced. The NFRC lists their solar heat gain coefficient at a .18 and the closest window in my area has a .25. It just sounds to good to be true. If this information were coming only from my salesperson, I would dismiss his unbelievable claim. Is anyone familiar with the NFRC website? And if so, is it a reliable source of information?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman has .18 SHGC according to the NFRC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:52 pm 
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Michelle528 wrote:
I live in the North Ft. Worth Texas area and have been researching windows for my 8 year old home. I want to be certain I am getting the best, but have found myself at a crossroads. My salesperson told me to check the National Fenestration Rating Council website (www.nfrc.org) to establish the true performance ratings on windows. I checked all of them out and found the Home Craftsman window (owned by Alenco) to be the best performer. My problem is that the price does not match the outstanding performance rating. It seems to be competitively priced. The NFRC lists their solar heat gain coefficient at a .18 and the closest window in my area has a .25. It just sounds to good to be true. If this information were coming only from my salesperson, I would dismiss his unbelievable claim. Is anyone familiar with the NFRC website? And if so, is it a reliable source of information?


The NFRC is your most legitimate source for information, however, there are other factors to consider when evaluating a windows.

Obviously in Fort Worth, you will have your fair share of Sunlight and therefore a low SHGC would be beneficial. This should be combined with a a low U-factor as well.

The product that I see listed with a SHGC of .18 also has a U-Factor of .37 which is not even low enough to be considered energy star compliant for the region of the country that I live in. Most agree that the Energy Star ratings are a bit behind the power curve as well. This window will be adequate at blocking solar radiation, but will not do a very good job of keeping the heat in your home during the winter.

.37 is also not a very efficient window for an area that does have some winter weather temperatures.

The windows that I say from Alenco in a triple glazed format only came in with a U-Factor of .29, which is not very good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:32 am 

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It is my understanding that the U-value is a measurement of the resistance to heat flow. This is how we measure our walls and not windows ... since glass does not resist heat flow. The frame of the window can be used as a resistance to heat flow, but this only makes up less than 5% of the opening. Isn't it more important to get the best performing piece of glass (which makes up 95% of the opening) ... especially when my research has shown me that most every vinyl window has a u-value between .29-.32 as listed on the nfrc website??? Since I live in the north Texas area I am more concerned about the heat entering my home. If the heat will escape my home, as you mentioned it would, then this would be a plus in my climate.

Does anyone have any reccomendations as to what window would be best for the climate that I live in??? I am not wanting to install these myself ... therefore I would need to have them installed ... preferably by the employee of the window supplier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:00 pm 
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Michelle528 wrote:
It is my understanding that the U-value is a measurement of the resistance to heat flow. This is how we measure our walls and not windows ... since glass does not resist heat flow. The frame of the window can be used as a resistance to heat flow, but this only makes up less than 5% of the opening. Isn't it more important to get the best performing piece of glass (which makes up 95% of the opening) ... especially when my research has shown me that most every vinyl window has a u-value between .29-.32 as listed on the nfrc website??? Since I live in the north Texas area I am more concerned about the heat entering my home. If the heat will escape my home, as you mentioned it would, then this would be a plus in my climate.

Does anyone have any reccomendations as to what window would be best for the climate that I live in??? I am not wanting to install these myself ... therefore I would need to have them installed ... preferably by the employee of the window supplier.


Your understanding is incorrect.

R-Value (the inverse of U-Value) is how walls are measured.

U-Factor, a measure of heat transfer, is how windows are measured.

This is good pdf from the NFRC to read.

http://www.nfrc.org/documents/U-Factor.pdf

Glass does resist heat flow depending on the performance coatings applied to it and it is important to get the best performing glass that you can. That being said, the glass that you mentionned in the Alenco window has an air fill as opposed to argon or krypton. Not a very good choice.

The windows that you are looking at have a high SHGC which is important for radiation but the relative lack of a U-Factor means that the window will not do a very good job of keeping the heat from the outside air out as well.


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 Post subject: My Experience in Texas (Dallas Area)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:25 pm 

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Hi Michelle,

Like you, I did lots and lots of research - to the point that it was hard to determine the facts from fiction. Anyway, I came to the conclusion that THD 6500 Series was what I considered to be the best value with moderate/high efficiency for North Texas climate. Although alot of folks here don't like THD, my experience was GREAT! The windows have double coat of lowE to help with the sun rays we deal with down here and this also gives the window panes an irredesent look (which is really appealing). If you haven't checked THD out, I would encourage you to give them a call. Good luck and I hope your project comes out as satisfactory as mine did. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:14 pm 

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Finally a reply from someone who can send me in a direction of a window supplier. The gentleman from Washington kept telling me that the ALENCO was inferior, but I am inquiring on the Home Craftsman (NOT ALENCO) which has the best performance ratings over any other window in MY area. All he did for me was tell me how bad it was, but no insight as to where to look. I am only concerned about how a window performs in my area and not a colder climate. Windows performing well in a colder climate will not concern me, nor will it help me in my warmer climate. (Ex: It gets cold here in North Texas, but I have never needed to wear my Parka coat I bought when I lived in Michigan. I have no use for it in Texas!)

Now my only question is: What is the THD 6500? Who sells it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
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THD 6500 is a window made by Simonton that is sold and installed by The Home Depot. It will cost you about 20% more to purchase thru HD as opposed to a local Simonton Contractor. You are also much more likely to get a better installation from a local company, anecdotal reviews acknowledged and excepted.

It is also sold as the Simonton Reflections 5500 series and the Prism Platinum. To find a contractor in your area, go to:

http://www.simonton.com

Click on find a contractor and enter your zip code.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Michelle528 wrote:
Finally a reply from someone who can send me in a direction of a window supplier. The gentleman from Washington kept telling me that the ALENCO was inferior, but I am inquiring on the Home Craftsman (NOT ALENCO) which has the best performance ratings over any other window in MY area. All he did for me was tell me how bad it was, but no insight as to where to look. I am only concerned about how a window performs in my area and not a colder climate. Windows performing well in a colder climate will not concern me, nor will it help me in my warmer climate. (Ex: It gets cold here in North Texas, but I have never needed to wear my Parka coat I bought when I lived in Michigan. I have no use for it in Texas!)

Now my only question is: What is the THD 6500? Who sells it?


I am sorry but you obviously never read any part of my previous posts or at minimum, did not understand them.

There are a myriad of different windows located all over the country. I am quite certain that major brands are available all over the country.

The Simonton window is an excellent product and probably has far better numbers than the ALENCO product.

BTW...the Alenco company makes the Home Craftsman line of windows. They are in effect, the same thing and that is why I was referring to it as Alenco.

There is no way that you can make a statement that the Alenco/Home Craftman window has the best performance numbers in your region if that is all you have seen and your understanding of performance data is limited at best.

I would recommend that you expand your search and keep educating yourself.

Good luck in your search.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:45 pm
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Hi Michelle,

Sorry I didn't clarify THD is The Home Depot. Again, regardless of what these folks say about THD, my experience was that they have a good product, I found them to be very competitive in price, and the installation went without a hitch. I had a Simonton seller and installer give a quote and it was not as good as THD. And the warranty with THD was better than all others except Sears but Sears was substantially higher. Take a look at THD and see what you think. Even if I had paid 20% more with THD (which I didn't) it would have been worth it for the results. But their bid was not 20% more from the 7 bids I got.

You're right, throw away that parka down here - :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:09 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:01 pm
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According to the gentleman from Washington ... the Home Craftsman line of windows is made by Alenco, which is why you kept quoting me on the Alenco performance numbers. Actually I found, during your suggested research, that Home Craftsman is a actual manufacturing facility located in Dallas. They are owned by Alenco. Alenco is a metal and vinyl window manufacturing facility located about 5 hours south of Dallas. The NFRC recognizes them as 2 different manufacturing facilities ... manufacturing 2 completely different types of windows. When you do YOUR research YOU will find that the Home Craftsman line of windows (according to the NFRC) has a far better SHGC than that of Alenco or even Simonton. Although Simonton is a very good window, as well. (I wish to thank the Texashopper for the helpful information he provided.) Suggesting to me that Alenco and Home Craftsman were one in the same was misleading at best.

Please tell me which window has a better SHGC number than that of the Home Craftsman window in my area.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Have you checked the NFRC.org yet....?

If you had, you would see that Home Craftsman are a product line of windows listed under the Alenco manufacturing division.

http://cpd.nfrc.org/pubsearch/psLineDet ... -M-44_9109

The numbers that I quoted you were from that windows performance. I think you are getting hung up on symantics and are missing my original point.

I do not live in Austin so I am not familiar with those product offering and what has a lower SHGC. Perhaps you should do more shopping.

Take a look at films if SHGC is all you are concerned with.

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/bui ... /films.htm

Ask yourself this question...would you rather have a window with a .19 SHGC and a .23 U-factor or a window with a .18 SHGC and a .37 U-factor....?


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