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 Post subject: Champion?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 10
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Hi,

We live in Arkansas are shopping for windows and have so far looked at Soft-lite, Great Lake and Champion. Can someone give me feedback? Particularly on the Champion windows? Also - they seem to be the only company I can find that has the 365 Comfort Glass. Supposedly beneficial in both the winter and the summer. From what he said (granted he's their sales guy) low e and argon is really only helpful in the summer.

We are getting 7 windows. 5 double hung and 2 sliders.
Champion 5,900
Soft-Lite 4, 200
Great Lake Seabrooke 3,000

I've all but convinced myself that the "swanky" new 365 glass isn't worth the huge jump in price. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.

For the record - I'm not interested in the Schuco.

Thanks for your time.

Lara


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:55 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Maryland , Washington dc , and Virginia
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champion has a bad track record as far as the install are concerned price seems high to me. what series on the soft lite?


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 10
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Thanks for your reply.

The quote on the soft-lite is for the Barrington. He gave me info on the Imperial - but I really don't like the look. It seems like you lose a fair amount of glass (4 of the windows are tall and only 23" wide) and they also looked fairly institutional to me. The price on the imperial was about $4600.

Should I learn to live with the look and for $400 more get the Imperial? Is it that much better of a window? (Or is $57 a window a nominal enough amount)

I tried to research the Bainbridge I've heard about on here - but even the soft-lite web site didn't have any info on it.

Is it worth the effort to try and track down Bainbridge - or go with one of the others?


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:36 am 
thats a normal price for the imperial. good window as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:55 am
Posts: 12
Location: Ohio
Offline
jsmomo wrote:
champion has a bad track record as far as the install are concerned price seems high to me. what series on the soft lite?



Explain to me why you say that ?

Champion makes and installs there own products and carry a lifetime warranty most other company's buy a window second hand and if you have issues you have to go through someone else to get service.

Check the BBB and see what they say about the company you are looking at I see them as one of the largest window companys out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: Northern,Virginia
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Quote:
Champion makes and installs there own products and carry a lifetime warranty most other company's buy a window second hand and if you have issues you have to go through someone else to get service.


Baloney... Most dealers have factory authorization to make judgements on warranty repair service. If the customer has a problem, they can usually contact the company that sold them the window or the wholesaler and get the problem corrected.

What happens if Champion goes bankrupt? Who's going to take care of your customer then?


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:55 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Maryland , Washington dc , and Virginia
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at 850 dollars a window thats good their salesman are overpaid they have the huge cost of having large showrooms but lets pay the hispanic window installer 12.50 a hour. lets do the break down about 1400 dollars in window cost two installers at 24 per hour for 6 hours and thats streaching it 144 dollars. thats 4356 profit. if i made 4000 dollars on 7 windows i might have a chance to be "one of the largest window company out there".


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:55 am
Posts: 12
Location: Ohio
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Skydawggy wrote:
Quote:
Champion makes and installs there own products and carry a lifetime warranty most other company's buy a window second hand and if you have issues you have to go through someone else to get service.


Baloney... Most dealers have factory authorization to make judgements on warranty repair service. If the customer has a problem, they can usually contact the company that sold them the window or the wholesaler and get the problem corrected.

What happens if Champion goes bankrupt? Who's going to take care of your customer then?


They have been around since 1953 and have a very good track record.

Also why worry about if joe the contractor is still in business today or if he decides to do roofs instead of windows because he can make more money


Read this article and remember single source accountability

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122608178711108953.html


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1334
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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What is the point of this article? That Champion's younger less experienced installers would have done a better job of putting in these new construction windows than someone like I would have because you're a big company?
Or is your point that Champion could afford being sued more often for poor workmanship because you're bigger? I guess don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Why you would post an article about new construction windows that were not flashed correctly?


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:42 pm
Posts: 4
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You've mentioned that low e and argon windows, or whatever provide most noticable change in summer. Judge for yourself-here is what you do with a window-you block heat exchange-mostly radiational (sun (IR and mostly UV from outside) and IR (from inside). It is done with coatings. In summer when you need to keep cool, coating reflecting UV and IR - works towards your goal. In winter when you need to keep the house warm-blocking heat from outside is working against your goal. Thats why coatings will contribute to savings in summer and not in winter. As for transfer of heat by conduction -this is where spacer, double panes, argon fillers and even the fact that vinyl is less conductive than alluminum- come in and they will provide savings in insulation of your house all year round. I only had double pane, 366 glass, argon/krypton mixture installed in fall, so I cant give summer numbers yet, so far my fall/winter energy savings are 30% (not really savings in dollar amounts, i compared the natural gas BTU's used last year with this year, average temperatures were within 1-2 F). I hope for even higher savings in summer. So i noticed, that they push 366 glass in areas, where cooling bills are significantly higher than heating bills, which makes sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:27 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:00 am
Posts: 2
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Champion has huge advertising costs, plus the commission for sending a salesman to your home. You get service but you pay for it. If you do the legwork yourself you can save lots. On my estimates, they were 1/3 higher than a local window company and reputable contractor.


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:05 pm
Posts: 1
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Hey Lara,
365 glass is just a trademark mark name. Any number of companies carry just as or more efficient glass for less.
Just Make sure you get these items and you will be ok.
Fusion Welded Frames and Sashes
double Low-e coating
Argon Gas
And make sure the installers are good and that they fill the gaps in the opening with a low density foam.
You should be able to spend between 3 and 4 hundred per window.
Find a local window and siding supply co., go to their show room view the different window mfg. they carry and they will recommend a good honest company they deal with to install them.


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 Post subject: Re: Champion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:51 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: Northern,Virginia
Offline
Quote:
Just Make sure you get these items and you will be ok.
Fusion Welded Frames and Sashes


So all fusion welded sash windows are the same? Stack welding is the same as an old single point weld? All manufacturers welds are the same? Really?

Quote:
double Low-e coating


Would you recommend she get triple or double coat in the middle of the U.S?

Quote:
Argon Gas


What about the different spacers? Will she be OK with any spacer?


Quote:
And make sure the installers are good and that they fill the gaps in the opening with a low density foam.


Wouldn't it be better for her to know if the installers are good before the job begins? Just because they use low density foam that means they are good? How about suggesting she call a few references before signing a contract?

Quote:
You should be able to spend between 3 and 4 hundred per window.


So you are telling her she can get a top notch window installed' with LoE 366 glass for $3-$400? Good luck with that.

Quote:
Find a local window and siding supply co., go to their show room view the different window mfg. they carry and they will recommend a good honest company they deal with to install them.


Or they might give her the name of an installer who is a drinking buddy, desperate for business and has offered to pay them a finders fee. How would a couple of clerks at a local supply house have any idea of the installers quality? If it was a Crestline distributor, do you think he would recommend Gorell or Simonton?


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