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 Post subject: Why are replacement windows sold like used cars?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 1
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I just tried to get an estimate on 18 replcaement windows from my local Schuco rep and was quoted $1450 per opening for standard 3x4 foot windows. I was also strongly pressured to decide on the spot. In addition, the rep gave an energy savings number that was so inflated it was almost fraudulent. Then the next day, I got a call from the company to tell me that the "manager" was authorized to offer a lower price. These are great windows, but why can't I get an honest quote? I can't even find a pricelist on-line. Are all window companies like this?

George


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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Caviat (what ever)
$1450 is ridiculous where ever you live. Why the used car approach?
Some people never shop around they just believe the salesman(he was such a nice young man or lady)and sign anything never knowing what they just bought (dumb)
At $26,100 with a 15% comission = $3,915 for one sale to this guy. Thats more than most people make in a month. Just gotta get you to sign. OK you didnt buy, how about a 30% discount ?
Thats $7830 off the price what could be a better deal? You just gotta sign right now! At 10% comission he makes $1827( less because he couldnt get full price and he may have to share with the "manager")
They are still trying to charge you $1015 a window. Still way too much for any vinyl double hung window on the market that I know of (any size)
Ai'nt it great the real reason is money and the lack of knowledge most people have before they sign (cost ,installation etc.)
Always take bids never sign right now this instant "we will never give this offer again" You would never believe how many people do not take bids. Take the sales persons word as gospel, and sign the same night or day. They are truely happy with their purchase and what it cost. Some wait for the "SALES MANAGERS CALL THE NEXT DAY" Then go ahead with it anyway. Still without getting more bids.
So what if they dont sign? Then leave them feeling any other product or installer is inferior to theirs and they just couldnt afford the "best".(this really does work on a customer)
You'd do the same thing if $2000 to $4000 was at stake for one sale. Most months have at least 30 days in them. Think about it? A used car salesman would like this opportunity. So what 25 of them said "NO" For $10,000 I could handle alot of rejection.(heck even for $6000)
High calber salesperson wanted potential $100,000 plus per year Professionals only call 555-sell.
Not all window companies are like this you just gotta shop. Some have protected territories for a certain brand ( you picked one)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:52 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Schucu - Awesome window.....

Just DYING to know what company it was that tried to sell them to you for that price, although I have my suspicions..
What area are you in??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:14 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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Other companies like ours do not pay sales staff by commissions and also have full time salaried field service technicians that also perform our installations. What you ran into was the standard bull that some of us find intolerable.


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 Post subject: My high pressure experience with windows
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:25 pm
Posts: 3
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I had One Stop Home Improvement of Sterling Heights Michigan, come over to give me an estimate on 15 windows, 9 foot door wall, siding and gutters. Over the three hour selling experience the price went from 32,000 to 28,000 to 26,000 to 22,500. All the while I kept telling them I was just getting an estimate and wasn't buying tonight and that I had two other companies lined up. They left at 8 pm. They came back at 8:10 pm with another offer of 19,900. I contacted one of the salesmen a couple of days later to express my feelings on what they tried to do. 32,000 down to 19,900. He was quick to defend himself, saying that his job was to do and say anything necessary to get a signature that night. And if I didn't understand business then he didn't know what to tell me. I've heard similar stories about Hansen's windows salesmen. Buyer be ware. These salemen have no conscience.


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 Post subject: why are windows sold like used cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
Posts: 243
Location: WISCONSIN
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Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast. If you think about it jewelry is sold the same way, and so are a lot of other things. What I mean by that is the selling price is totally unregulated and sometimes you'll see 80% off......wow. Years ago window mfrgs had suggested window prices for window dealers and more so with the wood people. When vinyl came along so did the tin men and all bets were off. Whatever the salesperson thinks he can get from you is the price.
Where I live in Wisconsin there are probably one hundred and fifty people you can buy replacement windows from. The surrounding area is around 400,000 people. Twenty five% of those salespeople don't know the difference between a window and a airplane but maybe they have a nice smile and are able to talk you into anything. Somewhere around half have a good grasp of the business and try to provide a decent product and price and the last twenty five percent are the killers.........the old Pacesetter people and the like. They well tell you anything and do most anything to get the sale and most of what they say is untrue and usually their prices are over the rainbow, but that's not a problem because they will knock the price in half just for you and you'll still be paying double.
Let the buyer beware really applies in this and many other businesses, like I said earlier it's the nature of the beast.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1338
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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There is plenty of blame for the industry no doubt.

But....do any of you reps out there that don't sell with high pressure and false drops get frustrated at the number of people who won't buy without pressure?
I have been running home show leads the last couple weeks and had the following experience this week. I go in, consult with the homeowners, give them my recommendations, come to an understanding of their needs, show them my offerings, then price out the products with installation. I don't try to push the sale on the first call because they are just starting their search and they have 3 more estimates coming. I leave after giving a list of references for them to check out my work.

When I go outside, the next salesman is in the driveway from a company I know to be sharks. They go in with their full of bs high pressure sales pitch and 50% energy savings guarantee, give a couple fake price drops with extreme "buy today" pressure ....and walk out with the order....over two thousand more than my bid for Schuco with triple glazing was. I found this out the next day when I called to see if there were any unanswered questions they had that I could answer.

My question....is this really the window industries fault? It seems some times that these companies are just giving people what they want, .....a "sale" where they feel like they saved thousands and get something for nothing.
As long as consumers buy this way, companies will sell this way. As for me, I prefer the way I sell, so I'm not changing the way I do business. I beat these type guys 8 out of 10 times.

Oh, one more thing.....if those homeowners I saw read this forum, those windows you bought are NOT the same ones that are in the space shuttle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:19 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:51 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Portland, OR
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Hate to agree with the rest, but it is the nature of the beast. The main reason they do it is because IT WORKS. When people stop falling for it, the practice will stop, but that will never happen. Most buying decisions are made with emotion and not logic, and unless human nature changes, "salesman" will always do this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:16 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Jewelery store sales people do the same exact thing, so give me a break.
Never hear one dan complaint about them.
I bought a 221.00 ring yesterday for 99.00, by stickin to my price from a jewelery store, using the same things people used on me when I sold windows.
Sales is sales.
It's ALWAYS been about bargaining, rebbuttling, and negotiating.
Presidential votes are solicited by making people promises and affecting their emotions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:58 am 

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 11:46 am
Posts: 1
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:?

Yes, I am getting multiple bids right now. I have to agree. Sears was by far the most aggregious, bidding 22 windows 8 of the eybrows at $29000, with instant discounts, 1st visit discounts, etc. reducing it to $18900. I'm an engineer, and made it clear to him that I did not appreciate this, and told him I felt I was being sold a used car. He did not try the hard sell, I guess he sensed that he would just be digging a hole. I treated him with respect during the entire visit, but it was like an attempt to be sold a time share.

The best bid I have recieved so far is from World of Windows, at about 9.5K for all the windows at low E, 7/8 inch and an color upgrade. I liked the salesman in that he just gave me a signed contract price and said get all the bids u want. Call me back if you want my product. I don't negotiate, I'm giving u my best price.

He talked about the benifits of his product, pure virgin powder vinyl, patented u shaped spacer, etc.

I was wondering if there is any reviews, feedback on this company.

Thanks.
D B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 29
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i think you may find some negative feeback toward window world if thats who you are referring to. i just had my windows installed by my local ww. i think they are great. i was really worried mostly because of these sites. not only was i assured i had made a mistake, but many people during this same time period have had indeed bad experiences that they have shared on these boards. and these were people who spent way more than i did and bought top of the line windows. the irony is some dont have windows yet. i do. hope they will soon.

what you brought up is one reason i went with ww. they gave me a contract in writing to the penny, never changed their price, and when i decided to buy a month later, it was that price. my windows are completed and no hidden costs. heres an example: i decided on obscure glass for the bath, and the salesman waived the upgrade cost, that was the only mis measured window. the installer immediately said this wont fit(i thought it might) said he would order another, put the obscure in well enough to keep out the elements. my wife asked if he could order it without the obscure and grids like the others. he came back in 12 days with a window like she asked, my name in it, the date and so on. plugged it in. the installer also replaced 6 cedar header boards because he said thats what he would do if it were his. he left and came back with the cedar, never a charge.

two more things. 3 guys 2 days. i watched their every move, told them id get lost, they encouraged me to pay attention. one guy had installed for sears earlier in the week, he and one other said they also install for hd. the 3rd said his dad and brother both install for sears and they have their own company as well. he said if i had bought through him i would pay twice the amount. last: these are alside windows. you can upgrade to ww best, the 6000, for only $40 a window. this is the sheffield and i think worth the extra $. whatever you do good luck, take your time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 10:03 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:51 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Portland, OR
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Don't know a lot about WW, but they are new to my area. I have read on these boards some negative things, so it is nice to see good feedback to balance it out. The only really negative thing I have heard about (grapevine only , so take it for what it is worth) is a lawsuite involving WW and some "bait and switch" tactics. Anybody know how they can sell a window installed for 189.00?? I see the adds., so is this a lost leader?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:02 pm
Posts: 9
Location: CHICAGOLAND
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That is the very reason i left the last company I sold for! Nothing I hated more than going in and insulting peoples intelligence with phony price drops and discounts and all of that BS. Now don't get me wrong, I am going to ask for your business at the end of my presentation, but I am not going to insult your intelligence, etc. I am now a sales manager at a different company, and we give our best price up front, and if we don't close on the spot, we get called back about 80% of the time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:41 pm
Posts: 205
Location: South El Monte, CA
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It's really bad in Southern California. You need to follow up or lose to the last guy in. Even though you did your job right. People always seem to choose one of the low bids. So I give a Price Matching Guarantee that I will beat any quote apples to apples by $100. (company has to have license and all the insurances and quote has to be written out. None of this back of the business card crap.) This seems to work a lot better than those huge price drops. I give the customer 1 month to shop. If they are going to buy windows soon one month is more than enough time to shop. I sell on volume rather than getting a huge commission on one job. I also sell over 15 brands of windows so I can change brands if I have to. We also sell just the windows if the homeowner wants to do the installation.

One of the biggest problems is that people actually think they can get a good quality window installed for $150. I call this the Home Depot Virus. Avg price of most my windows is $450 installed. I dont make what I use to per sale but close at least 15-30 sales a month making even more each month then I did before. I think companies should try this but they dont because the price drop works more than it should.


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