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 Post subject: BF Rich Cabernet 6000s or Northeast Camelot Crusaders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:00 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:43 am
Posts: 1
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Good morning, I am a new homeowner in Philadelphia. I need to replace aluminum-frame single-pane windows in my brick row-home. Although some are presently jalousies, I plan to replace them all with vinyl double-hung windows. I have had many estimates from both large nationwide companies and smaller local outfitters. I have narrowed my choices down to two local firms, both of which have received rave reviews on Angie's List. I was impressed by both representatives.

However, the estimates are vastly divergent and I suspect it may be, in part, due to the respective product-lines. One firm quoted for BF Rich Cabernet 6000s (it's a local Delaware firm) and the other quoted for Northeast Camelot Crusaders. The Crusader quote is nearly double the Cabernet quote. Would differences in product-line explain the vastly different estimates? Can anyone please provide advice?

I will add two things: 1) all the replacement windows will be in the back of the house, so external presentation is not much of an issue, as the house backs onto an easement; and, 2) due to budgetary constraints, I will likely have to have the installation done in two batches, so I am prioritizing some windows over others to begin with.

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: BF Rich Cabernet 6000s or Northeast Camelot Crusaders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 668
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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To be quite honest, you have one of the best window contractors around ( delaware mike).
He is a true craftsman and carries some of the better brands. I would do a board search of his name and click his contact button.


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 Post subject: Re: BF Rich Cabernet 6000s or Northeast Camelot Crusaders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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I know both of those series and manufacturers quite well. I don't like the Camelot Crusader at all. I think it presents well on paper, but when you see it in person it's a horrible looking bland contractor grade window at best. With it's blue white tint to the extrusion color, big and bulky locks, and questionable glazing (Sashlite), it's not something that I would ever sell or recommend.

PHRG can add as much Sunclean tempered glass to that window as they like and have their sales reps compare it to a 1983 mechanical cornered vinyl window making it sound like the best thing since sliced bread, but at the end of the day this window isn't worth anything more than $350 to $400 a unit installed and capped.

The Cabernet has more of a pedigree background and I think BF Rich has a loyal customer and dealer base along the east coast. It's not a window that I carry as I think that Soft-Lite and OKNA both manufacture a better and more up to date line of windows. The Cabernet has a strong extrusion, decent lines although kind of bulky, great Duralite glazing and backed by a very nice warranty. The week point on the Cabernet (double hung units) would be the out date irrigation sill with weep holes and bug flaps. It adds bulk to the window and some glass loss not to mention it's just a bad system.

I've serviced decently maintained Cabernets and found them to be still in great operating shape after 10+ years. I've replaced sashes on North East Crusaders and found them to be a mess. That Sashlite isn't supposed to fail regarding seal failure, right.........

I like the fact that your picking local manufacturers and local firms and searching Angie's is real smart. We have Affiinity and OKNA both local to Philly so you have some other options as well. North East, and OKNA are both doing very well financially and growing and very nice rate as far as what I've seen. Affinity is keeping themselves busy with orders for a newer company. I had heard some rumblings years ago that BF Rich could be up for sale but that wouldn't worry more as anyone interested in them would only be looking for a nice investment and if anything would make them better and stronger.

BF Rich, OKNA, and North East all have local factory service to their area in case they mess something up in the manufacturing and the dealer can't make correct for the homeowner. That's a plus.

I think you're on the right track.


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 Post subject: Re: BF Rich Cabernet 6000s or Northeast Camelot Crusaders
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 4351
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Neither are considered top notch performers and both leak air at a pretty good clip.

You have several good contraction options that serve Philly on the board here. Why not give one of these guys a holler?


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