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 Post subject: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:04 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:38 am
Posts: 4
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I'm replacing old wooden windows.

The current windows have brick mold built into the frame of the window and they used the brick mold as a sort of nail flange. So, when i take the window out, i have cedar siding stopping about 2" short of the actual rough opening.

I'm thinking it would best to get a new install window with a nail flange and just install it like normal, then add brick mold over the nail flange to cover it.

Would this be best? Or would it be better to get a replacement window and install it that way?

I'll try to add pics in a couple of minutes if I can.

Thanks

My link to the pic isn't working correctly.
Here is the link....

I replaced one window with this white one just to see what white would look like. So pay no attention to the install. Its just sitting in there for looks. I just want to show the space between the RO and the siding and get some ideas what would be best to use there.

The second pic is what the brick mold looked like around the old window. I placed it up to this new one to show how it covered the gap.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/84416460@N05/13221860423/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/84416460@N05/13221861393/

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3511
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Kris,

You are kind of straddling two different install techniques here and not doing either one of them 100% right which usually makes them 100% wrong. Don't get offended...we will get you set on the right path.

Are you doing the install?

Your existing windows are wood and have jamb extensions and trim? Do you want to keep that trim and is any of it custom stained, painted, window treatments, etc.?

Is there much rotted wood around the windows and on the brickmold?

Do you have carpentry skills?

Can you get access to to a trim brake or have someone that can work metal?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:32 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:38 am
Posts: 4
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Yes I am doing the install.

I have carpentry skills. I have completely remodeled my last 2 houses. And helped build 2 more.

Existing windows are wood. They have brick mold attached to the window with glue and nails. There is a grove on the back side of the brick mold that fits in a tongue on the window. The brick mold is part of the exterior of the window.

I'm going to be completely redoing the inside and outside trim.

The cedar siding is in good shape.

My thoughts were to get a "new install" window with a nail fin and no "J" channel. I was going to wrap the existing rough opening with tyvex or roofing felt or some sort of peel and stick material like ice and water shield. Then i was going to install the window, nailing through the nail fin. Then tape that seam and seal it. Then run my flashing under my cedar siding and on to the window. The place my external trim/Brick Mold over that to trim it out nice and neat.

If that isnt the correct way to do it, I'm open to all ideas.

My real question was if I could get away with a new install window with a nail fin or I needed to get a replacement window and screw through the sides...

And since i'm here, I might as well ask one of you guys to sell me on the Polaris Ultraweld window over the Pella 350 series. The prices are fairly close with the Polaris being a few hundred cheaper. But the sales guy i talked to couldn't really tell me any big differences in the Polaris vs the Pella. He just said he has been selling them for 15 years and they are a good window.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:38 am
Posts: 4
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After doing much more research, I think I understand why my post was so confusing.

I've mainly only used new windows. I just found out today that the last windows i put in my other house, I actually installed wrong.

So let me try and explain what i'm trying to do. I want to completely tear out the old windows. Down to the studs. The wood trim and the frames on some of them are in pretty bad shape and need replaced. So an actual sash removal and then a replacement window is not the best option for me.

So i think i answered my own question in saying I'm pretty sure I need a new construction window.

I might have to trim the rough opening in 1" boards first, but i think overall it will benefit me better this way. If this is a completely stupid idea, please let me know...haha


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3511
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Kris,

My concern with full tear outs (unless you are going back with nailing flanges) is drainage behind the siding and water management.

You doing anything with trimming back the siding and re-doing the exterior trim?

If the windows aren't currently leaking, you could create a probably by pulling out the currently sealed flanged set up

Most times we recommend that you cut back the exterior cladding enough to allow for the use of a nailing flange, flashing tape, drip cap, and new trim.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:38 am
Posts: 4
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I will have to square up the siding. And then redo the brick mold on the outside.

Like i said before, I might even have to add 1" boards to the rough opening to make more of a surface area for the nail flange.

My house has no sheathing. Only 1" foam board on the studs, then the cedar is attached through that to the studs...

I'll try and take a few pics tonight to show exactly what i have to work with.

Thanks for the help so far.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3511
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Roger that. Either shrink up the opening or cut back the siding is what you will have to do.

Keep us posted.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1753
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Good advice from WoW. The siding cut-back would be my preferred option. Since you have cedar siding as opposed to vinyl, you shouldn't get too much moisture behind it and getting the head flashing/drip cap between the siding and foam board should suffice. Some guys may think I'm a nut, but on similar installs with vinyl siding I'll actually cut a chunk of foam board out, flash to the header, and then reinstall or replace that piece. The reason is that there is no house wrap for proper lapping.
On product, the Polaris UW is a good choice. It has better thermal and structural performance (u-factor, air infiltration, etc) than the Pella 350 and a welded sloped sill as opposed to a pocket capture sill which drains water through the frame. The latter is a major design flaw IMO and why I'm not a big fan of that product.
The Energy Wall by Polaris is their top product, but the Ultraweld is still an upper tier performer.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Install Question
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1316
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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You can usually order the windows with applied jamb extensions.
I do not order this way as I do not normally know all the wall conditions till demo. Therefore we will field apply JE onsite, in your case after the window has been set.
You can prefab the head, two verticals and stool then shim and shoot to studs.

theWindowNerd...


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