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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Why yes, yes of course I knew that was a real word... :o .... I bet you use that one to pick up chicks, don't you. :lol: ..... I'm going to tell all of my clients about the superior stiction of our balances. The real question is, how on earth did you manage to work that into a conversation with your buddy?


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:40 pm
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Block and tackle.....Don't you mean a string and a spring..... :D constant force works best...


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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Great Lakes, Sunrise, and ProVia all utilized high quality block and tackle with virtually no problems. If you had a constant force that went to 11 it would have to be better wouldn't it? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:57 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:28 pm
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windowwise wrote:
Block and tackle.....Don't you mean a string and a spring..... :D constant force works best...


Is this your opinion or do you have some actual facts fo back up this statement?

As others have pointed out, some of the top windows out there use B&T. The only thing I've ever heard negative about B&T was from salesmen selling windows with constant force. Of course, to these type of salesman, any window but the one they sell is inferior. Until their company switches brands. Then the new brand is the best. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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EcoStar Remodeling wrote:
windowwise wrote:
Block and tackle.....Don't you mean a string and a spring..... :D constant force works best...


Is this your opinion or do you have some actual facts fo back up this statement?

As others have pointed out, some of the top windows out there use B&T. The only thing I've ever heard negative about B&T was from salesmen selling windows with constant force. Of course, to these type of salesman, any window but the one they sell is inferior. Until their company switches brands. Then the new brand is the best. :roll:

+1


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Sorry Kevin. You are 100% incorrect in this instance. There are a ton of good windows with block and tackle. Sunrise and HiMark are just two of many.

Get your facts straight.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:56 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 405
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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Marvin windows which are the most expensive come with a block and tackle which can handle alot of weight. block and tackle are more expensive for a company to stock and that is one of the main reasons companies opt to use constant force. that said, a constant force is still a good balance system.
by the way the block and tackle does not utilize " a string", its a composite cord similar to whats used in mountain climbing and parachutes.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:58 pm
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I am amazed at the misinformation about this topic. I've been selling windows for 24 years and I'll give you my opinion. The block and tackle balance system is leaps and bounds, a much better system. First of all when tested, it doesn't fail until 24000 cycles. The constant force fails at 4500. Constant force is affected by temperature and debris and is much noisier. Plain and simple, look what is put in most cheap windows, and look what is put in premium windows. In all my years in the business, I have never seen a block and tackle system go bad. I've seen too many constant force go bad, to mention. I would assume most in here saying constant force is good, sell them. Block and tackle is hands down the best on the market.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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As someone who works in the field installing these products everyday I'm more concerned with entire system that implements the type of balance system utilized. Well thought out engineering of the jamb extrusions and how it ties into the sill, married with quality hardware such as the balance shoes and pivot bars. Most of my premium vinyl products utilize a block and tackle system.

I will say this as I'm getting older and have some serious shoulder issues going on, I'm finding myself pulling sashes more often when setting windows alone and find the need to pull sashes from time to time on larger units. If an installer has to fight the balance system to fully seat the pivot bar and sash back into it's correct operating position, he's not going to love that particular window so much. The ones that I fight with the most always are constant force.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I can buy that... but that said, each has its pros and cons. While it is easier for me to pop a sash in and out at a service call with a B&T system, I get far more service calls when clients tilt and clean their open shoe B&T windows at the exact 90* angle that they were advised not to, :lol: . CF balances are indeed louder, however most often I hear more noise generated from weatherstripping to sash friction than the balance system itself... So back to my original contention: both are solid with negligible pros and cons (unless of course you need to hit the gym like DM :mrgreen: )... And to for the sake of full disclosure, my primary AND secondary offerings use B&T, while my third and fourth product offerings are CF.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 pm
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Location: Clovis, California
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I'm not sure how many will agree with me, however from my experiences your higher end windows will use a constant force balance system and lower end windows will use the block and tackle. Yes I know that is not always the case, but generally speaking.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Sunrise and Okna both use block and tackle.

Those are two of the more well regarded windows out there in vinyl.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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+1. While I stand by my statements that there are nothing more than minor pros and cons to each, I believe that the opposite is true (B&T in the higher end models)... Perhaps the different point of view is due to the regional difference. In a milder climate like CA, you really don't have many of the higher-end offerings available.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Clovis, California
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HomeSealed wrote:
+1. While I stand by my statements that there are nothing more than minor pros and cons to each, I believe that the opposite is true (B&T in the higher end models)... Perhaps the different point of view is due to the regional difference. In a milder climate like CA, you really don't have many of the higher-end offerings available.


I guess that would be because being regional we both experience different Manufactures. That being said doesn't mean that the West Coast does not have high end Windows as most Manufactures cater to the needs in their Region. My experience with window manufactures from back east that have shipped to California were very low end windows. i.e. Great Lakes/PlyGem, Jeld Wen , Champion just to name a few that we have seen out here.

I would not call California's Climate Mild, yes some areas are mild, however we see Temps. ranging from the low teens ( not cold in comparison to you folks) to 119* not mild when it comes to California Heat.

I would like to see Okna and Sunrise on the West Coast as they both build a very good window from what I have researched.


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 Post subject: Re: constant force vs block and tackle
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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To my knowledge, the Plygem offering on the west coast is not the Great Lakes product. Please do correct me if I am wrong on that.
Regarding my comment on " higher end offerings" I was referring to the window lines that have excellent thermal and structural ratings. In the NE and MW, we have accessibility to multiple lines such as the aforementioned HiMark, okna, and sunrise with AI ratings under .05 and excellent u values to match (.25 -.27 in double pane)$... I'm unfamiliar with any such options out west, so please add input if there are-- I'd be happy to recommend such a product. To my knowledge, the best options out there are those with middling performance such as simonton and Milgard.


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