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 Post subject: Marvin Infinity versus Pella Impervia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:20 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Illinois
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Have to get a window replacement for a double hung vinyl window grouping. Am debating between Marvin's Infinity and Pella's Impervia. Don't know how fiberglass stands up agains a wood or vinyl window. Can someone give me some good advice on which is better? Where does HD's Simonton 6500 stand in relation to the other two? Thanks. DP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:56 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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In my opinion the Pella Impervia stands above the rest. It's a very clean and sharp styled window. The Duracast material Pella put together to manufacture this window is unsurpassed in strength and durability. Duracast is the strongest, most durable material available in the industry today. It can withstand extreme heat or bitter cold. It can also be painted to match your homes exterior or interior. I've been totally impressed with this window since I first had a chance to see it. You won't regret choosing this window. The only downfall to this window is it comes only in single hungs or sliders. They haven't gotten the casement or the double hung developed yet. They do have a patio door unit available also. This is their only downfall. That's my two cents!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:50 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:04 pm
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Guy wrote:
In my opinion the Pella Impervia stands above the rest. It's a very clean and sharp styled window. The Duracast material Pella put together to manufacture this window is unsurpassed in strength and durability. Duracast is the strongest, most durable material available in the industry today. It can withstand extreme heat or bitter cold. It can also be painted to match your homes exterior or interior. I've been totally impressed with this window since I first had a chance to see it. You won't regret choosing this window. The only downfall to this window is it comes only in single hungs or sliders. They haven't gotten the casement or the double hung developed yet. They do have a patio door unit available also. This is their only downfall. That's my two cents!!!


There is one more down-side to the Impervia window. I used to sell them and had a sample in my vehicle that was demonstrated quite a bit. Over time, the friction created by sliding the window open and closed creates fine shards of the fiberglass material the same as if you install fiberglass insulation. At first, I thought it was a fluke thing, but it really becamse noticable when after an appointment where I demo'd the Impervia window, I accidentally splashed gasoline on my hands when I was filling my truck and BOY, did it sting I looked close at my hands and found little shards of fiberglass in them all over. Aside from that, they are a really good option over a wood replacement or even a vinyl window.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:43 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Weender Man, I think there will be those little shards all around the window in certain areas. You are correct on that I've also noticed it. I'm sure it's the same on all the fiberglass windows. I know they are working hard at making sure the finished product is buffed over to remove all those little shards. That's one thing I'm going to start following myself on them. Great point of interest, thank you!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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Urethane based Pella will do this, polyurethane based Milgard and Marvin will not. Pella uses urethane because the material can be stretched farther, that is, it can be made thinner. There are other sealers also used to prevent this, Milgard for example paints there fiberglass.


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 Post subject: Thanks guys!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:41 pm
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My Thanks to JScott, Guy, and Weender Man on your informative replies to my question about Marvin & Pella Fiberglass windows. I am going with Marvin because I need a double hung and Pella doesn't have one yet. My window is two double hung windows size 37w X 63 h and my price with installation is $1300. I have to get this window ordered next week. I feel comfortable in knowing that my fiberglass will withstand any vinyl or wood. It certainly will be put to the test in my northern exposure. Thanks again guys! Dennis


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Doesn't fiberglass get real brittle in extreme cold??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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Corvettes do tend to crack in extreme cold climates, however, the bodies are layered. With windows the fiberglass is putruded. From what I gather without the technical support, is that a similar comparison can be made in relation to roll form aluminum clad and extruded aluminum clad. Remind me in January and I have a mull cover from Milgard that I'll whack against a tree to find out. In our area we have been using fiberglass for a little over a year. I had a golf ball hit a casement stile and a small(tiny) piece pitted but there was no crack or other observable damage. I would think if the temperature was on the Kelvin scale you may have a problem but not in the continental U.S.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
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Location: Peoria, IL
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Hmmm, interesting.
So, apparently, the one downside is the fibers that "shed" from opening and closing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:04 pm
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HipKat wrote:
Hmmm, interesting.
So, apparently, the one downside is the fibers that "shed" from opening and closing.


I'm not for sure, but I'd have to wonder about the long term effects from opening and closing a fiberglass window like that over and over and getting that fiber dust in the air. It's usually a concern with insulation installers to wear a mask to keep those fibers out of their lungs. Fibers like that cannot be expelled by your lungs.

On the bright side, if you damage a window with a softball or the like, you can bondo it back together......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
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I think this fiber thing is brand specific. Never have seen this on our showroom displays. They have been to several shows and have gotten alot more use than most homeowners would. Possibly its because of a urethane resin instead of a polyurethane resin?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Jscott,
All fiberglass products are made with a resin based product. Polyester, Vinyl Ester and Epoxy resin are the most frequently used. Depending on the products allocated to be mixed with the resin you get the different types. Here are some examples:
1. UPE-FR—an FR-modified, unsaturated polyester suited for structural composites.
2. Urethane-VER-FR—an FR-modified, urethane-based vinyl ester resin. 3. Hybrid-Urethane-FR—an FR-modified, 2part urethane consisting of a polyol and isocyanate resin component that are mixed in-line at the pultrusion machine. (Pur Pultrusion)
4. UPE-Control—an industry standard, unsaturated polyester resin similar to #1, but without FR modification.
5. UPE-FR-NonHalogen—an industry standard, unsaturated polyester resin similar to #1, but with a non-halogenated FR

These are some of the more well known types. When you add the Polyester or vinyl you get the different styles. The "chop" or fiberglass strand is then mixed in with the resin by a spray gun which chops it up and layers it over the resin. Usually the two are kept apart from each other until needed. The catalyst for the resin is Hydrogen Peroxide. I mean 100% kill you dead peroxide. One pin drop on the skin and your AMF!!!! Nothing like the 2% here at home.
Pella for example has made their resin stronger and also developed a closer knit fiberglass matting which gives it the superior strength to any other product in the industry. Their issue with the fiberglass strands has been solved with finer strands. The windows you must have are probably made with a Pur-Pultrusion Urethane. Which has many benefits of the normal urethanes. But believe it or not it has polyester in it. They just leave the Poly part out. It's a great product and it's one of the best.
I think the future will bring a composite window that will make our homes more "Stealth Like" (Ha!!). The advantages will be a lighter stronger energy efficient window that will cost around 2K per opening. I think the price will have to have some work done first!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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Guy,
Good information. I have not seen what was described as splintering in any of the 2 fiberglass brands we are familiar with. Have you seen this splintering? You say there is no further issues after changing the strands? Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:41 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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It wasn't really splintering. What was happening was the longer fibers of glass weren't laying down and staying embedded in the resin. The tips were kind of hanging out and flaking. It kind of gave you that itchy feeling from touching fiberglass insulation. So they shortened the glass up and used a heavier matting to clear the situation up. It in no way makes the window bad or defective. It's just the things you have to deal with when using fiberglass.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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That makes since. Have you compared Marvin to Pella fiberglass? I thought the Marvins were nicer even more than the Pellas or the Milgards. I believe I once may have read you indicated to Milgard to use double walled construction on their double hungs which Marvin does. Marvin also has a double hung and casement/awning which Pella is still working on.


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